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  1. #1
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    Default A primetime animated drama aimed at adults.

    Other then the show Invasion America that aired on the WB in the 90's and perhaps the HBO Spawn cartoon, their really haven't been any major attempts at this. To me many prime time Science fiction and fantasy based live action shows woud actually work better animated. What would it take for an animated drama to succeed?
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  2. #2

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    honestly a lot

    while culture has accepted to some degree cartoons aren't just for kids, old habits die hard.

    we're watching awesome animated shows like reboot, transformers: beast wars, young justice, tron uprising and legend of korra struggle to get their market, and they include the child demographic.

    we've seen great animated movies like heavy metal, fritz the cat, the wizards, bomb at the movie theatre level to the point that the animated movie is practically dead, unless it's done by disney...and then only with legacy characters.

    heck I would use the following model, in regards of success.
    video games: honestly, the most successful animated dramas are video games. It's because they can hide the story in interactive gore and hide the stigma by getting the audience involved.
    cgi: pixar is the only reason why this is so high and justified. and because they orientate a lot of their stuff to the male gender, its seems to cover up the stigma
    anime: While no longer as popular as it once was, it has broken through the "adult glass ceilling" so at least it can be used to tell more adult stories. Heck it's responsible for the more adult style storytelling in animation that is attempted here.
    flash: basically cheap animation so you reduce your overhead.


    so here's some conjecture.

    1. cartoony: It has to be comfortable. I would argue that the most successful animated product in western culture is the original loony tunes.

    2. family friendly: as in, for all ages, not code for "young kids"

    3. great marketing potential. It has to be able to sell product and in such a way that adults would buy a product without feeling stigmatized.

    4. the internet: it must be advertised using the new medium so it can have it's rabit fan boyz and girls.

    5. mixing in live scenes. Notice how most people can justified they aren't watching something animated, when live people are involved (avatar being the most notworthy, despite the majority of it being animated).

    6. short: keep it a complete story within 2-3 episodes and show it as a mini series. until it finds it's audience, no one will bite. It's kinda how anime is often done as ovas.

    7. training: we've driven the animation industry off the north american continent. Most of the time, it's animated in japan or korea. If you want a next generation of animators, you need to train them here. otherwise, your best bet is to adapt other animation (such as video game animators) to cover up this lacking.
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  3. #3
    Bishop was right. Sighphi's Avatar
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    The X-men cartoon from the 90s was actually aired on prime time.

    Anyway, this isn't going to happen any time soon cause in most places that stuff is left for kids.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sighphi View Post
    The X-men cartoon from the 90s was actually aired on prime time.

    Anyway, this isn't going to happen any time soon cause in most places that stuff is left for kids.
    I think that it might take a well known property being adapted to a prime time animated show.
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  5. #5
    Veteran Member Simbob4000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sighphi View Post
    The X-men cartoon from the 90s was actually aired on prime time.

    Anyway, this isn't going to happen any time soon cause in most places that stuff is left for kids.
    Wasn't that just like once?

    I could see Marvel being about to get away with some primetime superhero show. But I guess that wouldn't really be a drama if they did it anything like their movies.

  6. #6
    In the Evil Force of Evil Chiasm's Avatar
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    A lot I think.

    Serious cartoons / anime are just too much a niche genre. Those that love them really love them but most of us don't get them. I'm definitely in that latter category as I've never watched a serious cartoon / anime that didn't make me lost interest almost immediately.

  7. #7
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    Someone told me once that the old Johnny Quest cartoon was aired during primetime (or at least meant to). If I remember correctly there was a lot of death on that show. Race put a lot of frog men in body bags. That's pretty hardcore for a show aimed at kids.
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  8. #8
    Here we ..... go DennyK's Avatar
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    What are "Things I Won't See in my Lifetime" Alex

  9. #9
    Senior Member Flyattractor's Avatar
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    American Audiences aren't ready for this kind of thing yet and wont be for a couple more decades at least but I would say that since anime has become far more commonplace then it was 15 or so years ago and american animation companies are "sort of" changing tracks in those directions it will happen eventually..

    Closetst we got to Adult Anime in the US was the old BATMAN the Animated Series. Which IMO was and is better then some prime time adult tv shows on today.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyattractor View Post
    American Audiences aren't ready for this kind of thing yet and wont be for a couple more decades at least but I would say that since anime has become far more commonplace then it was 15 or so years ago and american animation companies are "sort of" changing tracks in those directions it will happen eventually..

    Closetst we got to Adult Anime in the US was the old BATMAN the Animated Series. Which IMO was and is better then some prime time adult tv shows on today.
    Yeah the recent cancelation of Young Justice inspite of it's decent ratings has me thinking that their might be an audience for more mature cartoons, but the advertising industry in the west doesn't know how to market these kind of shows. in the 90's you had shows like Aeon Flux, Batman The animated series and The HBO Spawn Series showed that their is a potential market for that kind of stuff.
    Creativity involves breaking out of established patterns in order to look at things in a different way.
    http://songoftheethereal.blogspot.com/

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by shades of eternity View Post
    honestly a lot

    while culture has accepted to some degree cartoons aren't just for kids, old habits die hard.

    we're watching awesome animated shows like reboot, transformers: beast wars, young justice, tron uprising and legend of korra struggle to get their market, and they include the child demographic.

    we've seen great animated movies like heavy metal, fritz the cat, the wizards, bomb at the movie theatre level to the point that the animated movie is practically dead, unless it's done by disney...and then only with legacy characters.

    heck I would use the following model, in regards of success.
    video games: honestly, the most successful animated dramas are video games. It's because they can hide the story in interactive gore and hide the stigma by getting the audience involved.
    cgi: pixar is the only reason why this is so high and justified. and because they orientate a lot of their stuff to the male gender, its seems to cover up the stigma
    anime: While no longer as popular as it once was, it has broken through the "adult glass ceilling" so at least it can be used to tell more adult stories. Heck it's responsible for the more adult style storytelling in animation that is attempted here.
    flash: basically cheap animation so you reduce your overhead.


    so here's some conjecture.

    1. cartoony: It has to be comfortable. I would argue that the most successful animated product in western culture is the original loony tunes.

    2. family friendly: as in, for all ages, not code for "young kids"

    3. great marketing potential. It has to be able to sell product and in such a way that adults would buy a product without feeling stigmatized.

    4. the internet: it must be advertised using the new medium so it can have it's rabit fan boyz and girls.

    5. mixing in live scenes. Notice how most people can justified they aren't watching something animated, when live people are involved (avatar being the most notworthy, despite the majority of it being animated).

    6. short: keep it a complete story within 2-3 episodes and show it as a mini series. until it finds it's audience, no one will bite. It's kinda how anime is often done as ovas.

    7. training: we've driven the animation industry off the north american continent. Most of the time, it's animated in japan or korea. If you want a next generation of animators, you need to train them here. otherwise, your best bet is to adapt other animation (such as video game animators) to cover up this lacking.
    What is the reason for #7? cheaper labor?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by upmiddowntown View Post
    What is the reason for #7? cheaper labor?
    pretty much
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  13. #13
    Elder Member Free-Man's Avatar
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    I don't think it'll happen. There's still a stigma towards adults watching cartoons unless they're comedies. And even then there's still a pretty high failure rate for animated sitcoms. For every Bob's Burgers or Simpsons you get something like Sit Down and Shut Up that's cancelled after a few episodes.

    The other thing of course is that what Americans consider to be adult animation when compared to something like anime isn't always the best measuring stick. A lot of things that would be aired on Adult Swim here are considered kid's shows over in Japan.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by upmiddowntown View Post
    What is the reason for #7? cheaper labor?
    Japan cheap? Granted it is cheaper to animate in Japan only because the animation industry there pays it's Japanese animators lower wages than American animators and cuts a lot of corners but even then they still ship the bulk of the animation chores to S. Korea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Free-Man
    The other thing of course is that what Americans consider to be adult animation when compared to something like anime isn't always the best measuring stick. A lot of things that would be aired on Adult Swim here are considered kid's shows over in Japan.
    I don't about that. I've read a lot of about gaijins going to Japan thinking anime is highly respected artform for adults only to be told often something like, "Oh you watch that? I thought that's for kids". From what I get is manga is highly respected artform but anime really isn't respected as much except for the works of Miyazaki, Satoshi kon, and the like.

    Also the edgy anime tends to be shown late at night, like adult swim.

  15. #15
    Veteran Member Simbob4000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathew101281 View Post
    Yeah the recent cancelation of Young Justice inspite of it's decent ratings has me thinking that their might be an audience for more mature cartoons, but the advertising industry in the west doesn't know how to market these kind of shows. in the 90's you had shows like Aeon Flux, Batman The animated series and The HBO Spawn Series showed that their is a potential market for that kind of stuff.
    Aeon Flux was part of MTV's weird cartoon block, Batman (a show aimed at kids) come on after school with Tiny Toons, and Spawn came on at midnight...and it was a HBO show. Rating don't really matter to HBO, they can do whatever they want.

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