What if it was Bendis?

[Pat Thomas]

Who exactly? Can you give examples?

Noh Varr seemed like a totally different guy. But what I was trying to get at is that the hype leading up to these books seems to have allowed the writers to get a pass when it comes to things like that. I used Bendis as an example because in the same situation, it creates an uproar. It could theoretically be any writer; and would the reaction be the same? I'm not trashing the books. Just confused by all the patience and understanding within this community.

[Rheged]

My question refers to the reception of Young Avengers, Avengers, and New Avengers. While the Hickman books haven't been receiving rave reviews in these forums, there is a sense of goodwill being extended that the books will get better. Young Avengers, on the other hand, has been referred to as "brilliant" by many oh-so-knowledgeable readers, despite some character and continuity inconsistencies, and a story filled with long conversations, and short on action. These are common complaints I hear about Bendis. I haven't been blown away by any of these books, but it seems like these writers are getting a pass for the same things that Bendis was crucified for. Is this based on the recent success both writers have enjoyed? Or, would your opinion of the books stay the same if Bendis was the writer? I'm curious what you think.

You act like every writer's dialogue is the same. A page of Gillen's dialog is fabulous, often fun, witty and informative. A page of Bendis dialog is more often repetitive, filled with 'uhmms' and 'yeahs' and ... painful.

I'm not sure what you are referring to as 'short on action' for Young Avengers. There was dancing, Skrull invasion, Spider-Man robbery, magick casting, the Loki / MAC fight, and Teddy's mom.

[Frank]

The work Bendis produces for Marvel didn't dip much in quality, in my opinion. No, the reason he gets all the backlash that he does is because at one point, he was writing practically every major event for Marvel and it started to feel like you just couldn't get away from the guy.

No matter how sweet the work produced, familiarity breeds contempt.

His Avengers stuff was pretty common super-hero stuff compared to the brilliance of Alias and DD and Powers.

As far as Hickman and the others, of course there's going to be goodwill since it's not Bendis. I have had piece of mind that I not have had for a long time.

[Victor Freeman]

It's really a matter of taste. For me Hickman's Avengers and New Avengers are great and the sort of comic I enjoy to read. But it's not for everyone. The same can be said for any comic or writer.

[Kieran_Frost]

Noh Varr seemed like a totally different guy.

a) you do realise how ironic this comment in, when try to defend Bendis... right?
b) Noh-var is a difficult one to write, because Bendis and Morrison are so juxtaposition; which interpretation do you go with? I think Gillen was BANG on the money, going for middle ground, and trying to explain the bizarre differences between the two versions.

But what I was trying to get at is that the hype leading up to these books seems to have allowed the writers to get a pass when it comes to things like that. I used Bendis as an example because in the same situation, it creates an uproar. It could theoretically be any writer; and would the reaction be the same? I'm not trashing the books. Just confused by all the patience and understanding within this community.

Specifically with Kieron Gillen; he's EARNED patience and understanding. He made Uncanny X-men wonderful again, and made gold out of the sh*t that was AvX (if you haven't read his tie-in issues which explore motives, thoughts, REASONS (something so much of that event lacked) then you simply must). Then there is his critically acclaimed Journey into Mystery. Gillen delivers heart in a way I truthfully have never seen in Bendis' work (and I like his work). And, as I said earlier, the difference between "talkie talkie" when it's important, and when it's pointless is incredibly important.

No-one is getting a pass. Fans are genuinely loving the comics.

[celticguy]

It's really a matter of taste. For me Hickman's Avengers and New Avengers are great and the sort of comic I enjoy to read. But it's not for everyone. The same can be said for any comic or writer.

Yup this nothing more need be said.

[HeyMcGee]

His Avengers stuff was pretty common super-hero stuff compared to the brilliance of Alias and DD and Powers.

Yep. I'd also add the first 100 issues of USM to that list. Bendis' Avengers run, for me, started sucking by his sixth issue. It never got as good as his other work. On the other hand, his X-men run is as enjoyable as his best work. I just hope he can keep it up. Maybe the problem is that he writes too many damn titles. If he just did two at a time I think they'd all be great.

[NexusTenebrare]

No-one is getting a pass. Fans are genuinely loving the comics.

Not all of us though.

[XPac]

There are a lot of subjective elements in play here which makes it impossible to directly compare how people would react.

I do think if it was the EXACT same book, with Bendis name on it instead of Gillens there would be more complaints though. But that just kind of comes with the territory of being a Bendis.

Gillen is an up and coming guy. Give him a few years on some high profile books, and the internet will probably start hating on him too. That's just how it works.

[TomSlick]

well he sure did kick Clint Barton's @$$. good thing Fraction saved him.

Man, Hawkeye was "dead" for less than a year. Bendis also hooked him up with Spider-Woman. Fair trade.

[Pat Thomas]

There are a lot of subjective elements in play here which makes it impossible to directly compare how people would react.

I do think if it was the EXACT same book, with Bendis name on it instead of Gillens there would be more complaints though. But that just kind of comes with the territory of being a Bendis.

Gillen is an up and coming guy. Give him a few years on some high profile books, and the internet will probably start hating on him too. That's just how it works.

It looks like you grasp what I was trying to get across about the writers. With the push these books recieved in these forums, and the anticipation, there just isn't the venom normally spewed about by the haters. Most everyone seems to be willing to let these books get established before rushing to judgement. That isn't a bad thing, it is just so uncharacteristic here. Compare what's being said about GOTG and Nova currently, to the lead-in to these books. I guess that's the difference between being a writer on the way up and one who is already there. Nowhere to go but down.

[UKFan]

It looks like you grasp what I was trying to get across about the writers. With the push these books recieved in these forums, and the anticipation, there just isn't the venom normally spewed about by the haters. Most everyone seems to be willing to let these books get established before rushing to judgement. That isn't a bad thing, it is just so uncharacteristic here. Compare what's being said about GOTG and Nova currently, to the lead-in to these books. I guess that's the difference between being a writer on the way up and one who is already there. Nowhere to go but down.

No that's the difference between a writer who delivers intriguing and engrossing fodder (Hickman) and one who delivers the sort of material one might better use the paper to wipe their behind with (Bendis).

[renne]

Maybe the problem is that he writes too many damn titles. If he just did two at a time I think they'd all be great.

while i generally dislike bendis, i think this is a great part of his problem (i think i'd like him a lot more if i wasn't forced to have to read him on most of the characters i want to read about). he's writing so many different books that all his characters start to sound the same. hickman on the other hand isn't writing half the books in the marvel stable, so his characters all still sound like individuals.

[Cowtools]

Bendis' "talkie talkie" complaints WEREN'T about heavy dialogue, little action; it was about pointless dialogue and little action. BIG. DIFFERENCE. Yes, there was a lot of dialogue in Young Avengers, but all of it was important.

This this THIS right here is the key.
I mean, look at All-New X-Men: it's getting a great response on this site because while it's talky, the talk is actually plot and character relevant.

[West]

Bendis sucks ***

This man knows what is up