Wolverine and the X-Men cartoon discussion

[The Weather God]

Rogue was sassy and badass, not emo like Evolution and WatXM. Storm was a goddess diva, way better than any other lens. I will have to agree Jean tripped and fainted more times than should be humanly possible, but at least she got the royal treatment with the near flawless interpretation of the Phoenix and Dark Phoenix sagas. Jubilee was the annoying teen, but even she got some nice beats along the way (the season 1 finale "Being an X-Man means more to me than anything else in the world!" Wolverine-"Me too, kid."). While the show certainly is a reflection of its time and was definitely a kids show, it remained true to the Clarmontian core of the characters and had great pathos for being a 'kids show'.

To each their own.

In my opinion, TAS had the better Rogue but Evo had better characterization of just about every other character. It was much more well grounded and you actually had a chance to see many of the characters grow into the leaders and people they were in a series like TAS(Which just copy/pasted and watered down most of the stories and characters from the comics). The villains were alot better and more convincing, the brotherhood was much more relatable, Apocalypse was much more powerful, mythical, ruthless, and intimidating, and Mystique's screwed up relationship with Rogue and her views were way better than TAS' and more convincing. The school was better represented(instead a small team operating outside of a huge building) and many of the stories were more original. Which helped you to enjoy it more instead of watching a watered down rehash.

[Gorviss]

I thought the series was amazing! I still can't believe it was canceled even though it was doing great. Did the creators ever release scripts so we could at least read where the story was going? Why did Marvel can the show? They're doing the same thing with Avengers earths mightiest heroes. I cant stand Ultimate Spider-man, it's to kiddish i think.

Anyway it bugs my why we never got an answer as to why Wolverine had to be the leader and how Xavier was sent to the future.

[motherofpearl1]

I wish Marvel would have been able to move on with the second season. AoA are you kidding me!!! I can't believe I never got to see that.

Didn't they do an Avengers series instead?

[Yogaflame]

To each their own.

In my opinion, TAS had the better Rogue but Evo had better characterization of just about every other character. It was much more well grounded and you actually had a chance to see many of the characters grow into the leaders and people they were in a series like TAS(Which just copy/pasted and watered down most of the stories and characters from the comics). The villains were alot better and more convincing, the brotherhood was much more relatable, Apocalypse was much more powerful, mythical, ruthless, and intimidating, and Mystique's screwed up relationship with Rogue and her views were way better than TAS' and more convincing. The school was better represented(instead a small team operating outside of a huge building) and many of the stories were more original. Which helped you to enjoy it more instead of watching a watered down rehash.

To each their own indeed. I couldn't stand the school dynamic and the teeny versions of the X-Men(one word: Spyke. I rest my case), let alone the fact that they went to a normal high school which featured 'Principal' Kelly. Talk about watered down. TAS didn't kid stuff down like that, first season, first episodes they are already showing shady government anti-mutant forces at work. I will give you the Apocalypse arc right at the end of Evolution (about the only watchable part for me), was pretty cool, but TAS Apocalypse was epic in his own way too, better than any actual 616 Apocalypse in my opinion.

In the end, just as with all mediums, the beauty is in the eye of the beholder and that is skewed largely by how old people are/when they saw things/in what order (cartoons and comics). As someone who grew up with TAS rolling out in real time and someone who was getting into the Claremont back issues at the same time, TAS is golden for me. Yes, its animation is not the smoothest, bestest in the whole world, but it was the early 90's and they were on a budget. At least the aesthetic was pure Jim Lee, not whatever Disney crap they ripped off for Evo and WatXM.

[Yogaflame]

I thought the series was amazing! I still can't believe it was canceled even though it was doing great. Did the creators ever release scripts so we could at least read where the story was going? Why did Marvel can the show? They're doing the same thing with Avengers earths mightiest heroes. I cant stand Ultimate Spider-man, it's to kiddish i think.

Anyway it bugs my why we never got an answer as to why Wolverine had to be the leader and how Xavier was sent to the future.

Xavier wasn't 'sent to the future'. He was in a coma that whole time and woke up in the future, somehow telepathing to the past(don't know of too many instances of that sort of thing in canon aside from Rachael, who can actually psychically time-travel).

As for Wolvie the leader, well, that was just stupid. They sort of explained it by having Scott holed up in some junky hotel, being a hot mess, but they never showed why Storm wouldn't be the leader instead. In fact, Storm was just completely wasted in that show, used only for her powers. Whereas TAS had Storm leading missions a couple episodes in, even beating up Callisto!

[AdamYJ]

To each their own indeed. I couldn't stand the school dynamic and the teeny versions of the X-Men(one word: Spyke. I rest my case), let alone the fact that they went to a normal high school which featured 'Principal' Kelly. Talk about watered down. TAS didn't kid stuff down like that, first season, first episodes they are already showing shady government anti-mutant forces at work. I will give you the Apocalypse arc right at the end of Evolution (about the only watchable part for me), was pretty cool, but TAS Apocalypse was epic in his own way too, better than any actual 616 Apocalypse in my opinion.

Wow. All the stuff you disliked is the stuff I liked about Evo. I liked the teen X-Men because I usually found younger superhero characters more ingratiating than older ones (say what you will, but I always found the characters from New Mutants and Generation X more likable than the main X-Men). And I liked the high school setting because it meant they had to go out into the regular world and interact with normal people rather than just holing themselves up in the mansion like they often do.

From what I saw of it, I didn't like Wolverine and the X-Men because it felt like nothing special to me. The cast and situation were both "been there, done that". Say what you will about Evo, but it was definitely different than "standard issue" X-Men. I know some like WatXM because it was more "grown-up" in a way compared to other X-Men cartoons. However, because I read the comics where "grown-up" is kind of the norm, it doesn't really seem like anything special. When I'm watching a superhero cartoon, I often want something that I can't get in the comics themselves. I like it when a superhero adaptation goes a little off the rails.

[Yogaflame]

I probably do skew more mature than childish in my tastes, but teen heroes can be great. The Evo approach just didn't work for me. Young Justice and Avatar the Last Air Bender series are much more enjoyable than Evolution for me, despite being very kid oriented and featuring a young cast. Plus early Gen X was pretty good, as were the New Mutants. Its not a teen thing per say, its how you do it.

[AdamYJ]

I probably do skew more mature than childish in my tastes, but teen heroes can be great. The Evo approach just didn't work for me. Young Justice and Avatar the Last Air Bender series are much more enjoyable than Evolution for me, despite being very kid oriented and featuring a young cast. Plus early Gen X was pretty good, as were the New Mutants. Its not a teen thing per say, its how you do it.

I prefer lighter stuff, personally. I was never crazy about Avatar because I didn't want to invest myself in what was essentially a giant epic war story. And while I admire Young Justice for being different from a lot of the comics (new Aqualad and all that), I'm not a huge fan of the dark tone of that series. My Young Justice is actually the DC comic of that name written by Peter David which would switch between serious stories and screwball comedy at the drop of a hat.

[Yogaflame]

I prefer lighter stuff, personally. I was never crazy about Avatar because I didn't want to invest myself in what was essentially a giant epic war story. And while I admire Young Justice for being different from a lot of the comics (new Aqualad and all that), I'm not a huge fan of the dark tone of that series. My Young Justice is actually the DC comic of that name written by Peter David which would switch between serious stories and screwball comedy at the drop of a hat.

Well no wonder you liked Evolution! To each their own indeed!

Did you like the Teen Titans cartoon?

[Personamanx]

Honestly it's been a while since I've watched Evolution but I would not call it more lighter and softer than TAS. Evolution had some pretty damn dark moments in any case.

Really though none of the X-Men animated adaptations were that great. I mean the only two that even lasted a considerable amount of time were inconsistent at best, hell even the other two weren't very consistent either with only one of them showing all that much promise.

[Yogaflame]

Honestly it's been a while since I've watched Evolution but I would not call it more lighter and softer than TAS. Evolution had some pretty damn dark moments in any case.

Really though none of the X-Men animated adaptations were that great. I mean the only two that even lasted a considerable amount of time were inconsistent at best, hell even the other two weren't very consistent either with only one of them showing all that much promise.

They had prom, worried about homework and played basketball with flatscans. It was certainly lighter in tone. At least the first few seasons.

[Personamanx]

They had prom, worried about homework and played basketball with flatscans. It was certainly lighter in tone. At least the first few seasons.

None of that really indicates tone at all. Not necessarily anyway.

"Ghost of a Chance" was darker than anything I remember seeing in TAS. Granted that was very late in the series.

[Kurolegacy]

Didn't they do an Avengers series instead?

Didn't have anything to do with Avengers Earth's Mightiest Heroes. Apparently they canceled it because they couldn't work out the financing for the show with their financing partner.

[The Weather God]

To each their own indeed. I couldn't stand the school dynamic and the teeny versions of the X-Men(one word: Spyke. I rest my case), let alone the fact that they went to a normal high school which featured 'Principal' Kelly. Talk about watered down. TAS didn't kid stuff down like that, first season, first episodes they are already showing shady government anti-mutant forces at work. I will give you the Apocalypse arc right at the end of Evolution (about the only watchable part for me), was pretty cool, but TAS Apocalypse was epic in his own way too, better than any actual 616 Apocalypse in my opinion.

While Kelly may have been a "principle" in the series at first, you did get to experience why he ended up becoming a Senator in the end. All of the crazy stuff that was happening at the school(Beast, the brotherhood, and many other unnatural occurrences), you got the chance to relate more to why he became so ruthless against mutants in the first place. In my opinion, that does not water down the character, but in fact breathes more life into it and gives you the chance to understand their side of the story. TAS didn't do this very often with their main villains, and just basically tossed them into the series with little backstory or character depth(my definition of watered down). Again, I don't believe seeing the reason these characters become who they are waters down the approach, especially considering they stopped going to school by season 3 and focused on more "serious" stories. Even the first two seasons weren't all about the school dynamic(Strategy X, Shadowed Past, Grim Reminder, The Cauldron, Adrift, On Angel's Wings, Operation: Rebirth, Mindbender, Retreat, The Hex Factor, Day of Reckoning). I also felt that the school dynamic was an important issue with X-men as well considering the approach for when mutant powers "normally" manifest.

In the end, just as with all mediums, the beauty is in the eye of the beholder and that is skewed largely by how old people are/when they saw things/in what order (cartoons and comics). As someone who grew up with TAS rolling out in real time and someone who was getting into the Claremont back issues at the same time, TAS is golden for me. Yes, its animation is not the smoothest, bestest in the whole world, but it was the early 90's and they were on a budget. At least the aesthetic was pure Jim Lee, not whatever Disney crap they ripped off for Evo and WatXM.

I agree here, and while I did enjoy TAS when I was a little boy and I enjoyed Evo as a teenager, I tend to look at both series at a current POV. TAS had terrible animation, voice acting, and water down plots from the comic books. While Evo to me was a much more well intergrated, relatable, realistic, well thought out, and original series.

[The Blinkmeister]

Having not seen Evolution, TAS is easily the best X-men cartoon. Just watched Wolverine & The X-men on DVD and while it is entertaining sometimes, it is almost completely empty on character development of the title characters (with the exception of Marrow, who technically doesn't count). Not to mention the X-villain tributeband in the last episodes.