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  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Superman is so far above 100 it's sorta scary now. Wonder Woman is a good bit past 100 also. Aquaman is also past 100 too......but in the end powerlevels mean nothing in comics.

    All you need to know in this context is Superman is strongest (by a lot) Wonder Woman is very very very very strong and Aquaman is very very strong. But Superman still weighs 220 something lbs so if Aquaman who can lift a whole ocean liner punches Superman when he's not ready then yeah he should go flying pretty damn far........but is he hurt? No, just annoyed.



    Power levels mean nothing you just have to remember everyone's general role in the world and you're good........try thinking like a little kid again...it's helps.
    Where do you get the notion that Superman is above class 100? Whereas Marvel has attempted to provide a strength system, DC has left it arbitrary and open to arbitrary adjustments. Had Marvel not established these classes for strength, we'd easily speculated that Hulk might pummeled Superman, given enough rage increase in a dual with Superman; same true with Wonder Woman. I think this comment is one of those unfair hindsight issues where, once Marvel or DBZ committed to establishing a standard, someone than comes by and wants a character like Superman or Wonder Woman to be past it.

    You got to know that being shown as pushing a planet in the Silver Age of comics was one of those cartoon feats; no one actually takes that seriously, if that's something you're trying to use to establish your case. It could be serious for other characters, but I don't think it was seriously meant to be applied to characters like Superman and Wonder Woman.
    Last edited by dshipp17; 02-03-2013 at 06:43 PM.

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by dshipp17 View Post
    Where do you get the notion that Superman is above class 100? Whereas Marvel has attempted to provide a strength system, DC has left it arbitrary and open to arbitrary adjustments. Had Marvel not established these classes for strength, we'd easily speculated that Hulk might pummeled Superman, given enough rage increase in a dual with Superman; same true with Wonder Woman. I think this commit is that unfair hindsight that once Marvel or DBZ commits to establishing a standard, someone than comes by and wants a character like Superman or Wonder Woman to be past it.

    Um, Superman can hold up the equivalent of the Earth for five days without sunlight and barely break a sweat. You damn right he's above Class 100.

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superman Priime View Post
    Um, Superman can hold up the equivalent of the Earth for five days without sunlight and barely break a sweat. You damn right he's above Class 100.
    'You got to know that being shown as pushing a planet in the Silver Age of comics was one of those cartoon feats; no one actually takes that seriously, if that's something you're trying to use to establish your case. It could be serious for other characters, but I don't think it was seriously meant to be applied to characters like Superman and Wonder Woman.' And I'd be willing to bet that was some nonsense established after Marvel and DBZ had established their standards.
    Last edited by dshipp17; 02-03-2013 at 06:47 PM.

  4. #109
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    Also, notice how Superman has that strained look on his face when he handles large objects like say an airplane? So, being implied to handle a planet sized object is like an after the fact arbitrary adjustment. I like the idea of a Superman who's straining to handle the airplane. Than, similar to the DBZ characters, I'm much more inclined to respect Superman and take him more seriously if he's shown working his way up to being able to start handling a planet sized object. I especially would apply this to Wonder Woman.
    Last edited by dshipp17; 02-03-2013 at 07:21 PM.

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hound of UIster View Post
    But he didn't. He retconned large portions of Orin's history including his parentage. He made the character synonymous with the excesses of the 90s with the harpoon hand, beard and nonsensical antiheroism.
    I recall the beard and harpoon but those were just the appearance/visual aesthetics. What about the majesty and mythology of the seven kingdoms, the villains, all those undersea locales, communities and underwater or marine based superheroes? The Aquaman family was huge at that time. And then there were the undersea political intrigues around running a kingdom.

    I am curious about the antiheroism claim--I do not recall him being an antihero in PAD's run at all. I *do* recall PAD mining the very meaty and controversial topic of the value of surface dweller lives vs that of Arthur's subjects. I thought was AWESOME and filled with potential. How was he an antihero in your view?

  6. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by dshipp17 View Post
    'You got to know that being shown as pushing a planet in the Silver Age of comics was one of those cartoon feats; no one actually takes that seriously, if that's something you're trying to use to establish your case. It could be serious for other characters, but I don't think it was seriously meant to be applied to characters like Superman and Wonder Woman.' And I'd be willing to bet that was some nonsense established after Marvel and DBZ had established their standards.
    The feat the other poster was referring to is only a couple months old. It is not from the Silver Age, so whether we like it or not these are the power levels they seem to be establishing for Superman.

  7. #112
    Senior Member ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dshipp17 View Post
    'You got to know that being shown as pushing a planet in the Silver Age of comics was one of those cartoon feats; no one actually takes that seriously, if that's something you're trying to use to establish your case. It could be serious for other characters, but I don't think it was seriously meant to be applied to characters like Superman and Wonder Woman.' And I'd be willing to bet that was some nonsense established after Marvel and DBZ had established their standards.
    You clearly do not read a lot of DC, or at least Superman, do you?

    So you think that those silly Silver Age strength feats apply to other characters and not Superman? The character who started doing these things before anyone else, the guy who is, by his very definition, the strongest man on earth?

    What sort of logic exactly, are you trying to employ? Because this sounds less like a reasoned argument and more like a fan who thinks that his personal favorites should be better and cooler than someone he doesnt care for as much.

    For my money though, no, those feats dont count. It was an old continuity and an old Age. But it doesnt count for anyone.

    So here's a little "S" history for you.

    After the Crisis on Infinite Earths in 1985, the Bryne-era Superman reboot brought him down from planet-pushing crazy to something a *bit* more believable. This was during the time when DC was trying to distance itself from those silly Silver Age concepts as a whole. Superman remained the (by and large) strongest hero around, but the greatest strength feats that I can recall were moving the moon. He did that a few times, sometimes with help or equipment, once or twice on his own. He completely shattered a shadow construct that had the same size and mass as the moon, and during Our Worlds At War, (after a sun dip,) pushed Brainaic's version of War World (if memory serves this was a mechanized Pluto) against its will through a boom tube.

    In current continuity, things are different.

    Clark started out on a Golden Age level, the greatest strength feat we have seen involved stopping a runaway bullet train (Action #1) and leaping (with a big running start) into lower orbit where he then ramped off a satellite (Action #7 I think). That was "five years ago" in continuity.

    After the arrival of the first alien invader, Clark stepped up his game, as seen in pretty much every issue of Action since.

    In the current day, he was shown to be at roughly the Bronze Age, Bryne era levels of power, as shown by the likes of Perez and Jurgens (current volume of Superman). This is, until he ran into the Daemonite lord Helspont who thrashed him thoroughly (Superman annual I think, though they first met in #7 or 8). Clark then realized that despite the strength he had gained, the additional powers (like flight) and despite being the most powerful man on earth, he still wasnt strong enough.

    Enter the Lobdell run of Superman, where he has begun a workout routine to strengthen himself for the inevitable coming battle. This is the scene people are talking about where he lifts the planet's weight for five days without sun and barely breaks a sweat. He was not actually pushing the earth; this was done in a laboratory using equipment, overseen by the scientist Dr. Veritas (issue 12 I guess?)

  8. #113
    The Mad Artist RMAN63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ascended View Post
    You clearly do not read a lot of DC, or at least Superman, do you?

    So you think that those silly Silver Age strength feats apply to other characters and not Superman? The character who started doing these things before anyone else, the guy who is, by his very definition, the strongest man on earth?

    What sort of logic exactly, are you trying to employ? Because this sounds less like a reasoned argument and more like a fan who thinks that his personal favorites should be better and cooler than someone he doesnt care for as much.

    For my money though, no, those feats dont count. It was an old continuity and an old Age. But it doesnt count for anyone.

    So here's a little "S" history for you.

    After the Crisis on Infinite Earths in 1985, the Bryne-era Superman reboot brought him down from planet-pushing crazy to something a *bit* more believable. This was during the time when DC was trying to distance itself from those silly Silver Age concepts as a whole. Superman remained the (by and large) strongest hero around, but the greatest strength feats that I can recall were moving the moon. He did that a few times, sometimes with help or equipment, once or twice on his own. He completely shattered a shadow construct that had the same size and mass as the moon, and during Our Worlds At War, (after a sun dip,) pushed Brainaic's version of War World (if memory serves this was a mechanized Pluto) against its will through a boom tube.

    In current continuity, things are different.

    Clark started out on a Golden Age level, the greatest strength feat we have seen involved stopping a runaway bullet train (Action #1) and leaping (with a big running start) into lower orbit where he then ramped off a satellite (Action #7 I think). That was "five years ago" in continuity.

    After the arrival of the first alien invader, Clark stepped up his game, as seen in pretty much every issue of Action since.

    In the current day, he was shown to be at roughly the Bronze Age, Bryne era levels of power, as shown by the likes of Perez and Jurgens (current volume of Superman). This is, until he ran into the Daemonite lord Helspont who thrashed him thoroughly (Superman annual I think, though they first met in #7 or 8). Clark then realized that despite the strength he had gained, the additional powers (like flight) and despite being the most powerful man on earth, he still wasnt strong enough.

    Enter the Lobdell run of Superman, where he has begun a workout routine to strengthen himself for the inevitable coming battle. This is the scene people are talking about where he lifts the planet's weight for five days without sun and barely breaks a sweat. He was not actually pushing the earth; this was done in a laboratory using equipment, overseen by the scientist Dr. Veritas (issue 12 I guess?)
    Make that issue 13:

    And I would assume that this should probably end all "Superman VS Wonder Woman" Rumble threads.


  9. #114
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    Le sigh...

    Aaah, comic book writers....
    Overcompensating much?

  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliseu Gouveia View Post
    Le sigh...

    Aaah, comic book writers....
    Overcompensating much?
    Well.. here's a tongue-in-cheek reply: This isn't that type of comic, or genre, but I'm sure that if Superman were to be examined we'd find out he wasn't compensating for ANYTHING there either. He has to be the utmost at everything, u know. LOL.

  11. #116
    Senior Member Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dshipp17 View Post
    Where do you get the notion that Superman is above class 100? Whereas Marvel has attempted to provide a strength system, DC has left it arbitrary and open to arbitrary adjustments. Had Marvel not established these classes for strength, we'd easily speculated that Hulk might pummeled Superman, given enough rage increase in a dual with Superman; same true with Wonder Woman. I think this comment is one of those unfair hindsight issues where, once Marvel or DBZ committed to establishing a standard, someone than comes by and wants a character like Superman or Wonder Woman to be past it.

    You got to know that being shown as pushing a planet in the Silver Age of comics was one of those cartoon feats; no one actually takes that seriously, if that's something you're trying to use to establish your case. It could be serious for other characters, but I don't think it was seriously meant to be applied to characters like Superman and Wonder Woman.
    Well I guess this seems silly now.

  12. #117
    Senior Member Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ascended View Post
    You clearly do not read a lot of DC, or at least Superman, do you?

    So you think that those silly Silver Age strength feats apply to other characters and not Superman? The character who started doing these things before anyone else, the guy who is, by his very definition, the strongest man on earth?

    What sort of logic exactly, are you trying to employ? Because this sounds less like a reasoned argument and more like a fan who thinks that his personal favorites should be better and cooler than someone he doesnt care for as much.

    For my money though, no, those feats dont count. It was an old continuity and an old Age. But it doesnt count for anyone.

    So here's a little "S" history for you.

    After the Crisis on Infinite Earths in 1985, the Bryne-era Superman reboot brought him down from planet-pushing crazy to something a *bit* more believable. This was during the time when DC was trying to distance itself from those silly Silver Age concepts as a whole. Superman remained the (by and large) strongest hero around, but the greatest strength feats that I can recall were moving the moon. He did that a few times, sometimes with help or equipment, once or twice on his own. He completely shattered a shadow construct that had the same size and mass as the moon, and during Our Worlds At War, (after a sun dip,) pushed Brainaic's version of War World (if memory serves this was a mechanized Pluto) against its will through a boom tube.

    In current continuity, things are different.

    Clark started out on a Golden Age level, the greatest strength feat we have seen involved stopping a runaway bullet train (Action #1) and leaping (with a big running start) into lower orbit where he then ramped off a satellite (Action #7 I think). That was "five years ago" in continuity.

    After the arrival of the first alien invader, Clark stepped up his game, as seen in pretty much every issue of Action since.

    In the current day, he was shown to be at roughly the Bronze Age, Bryne era levels of power, as shown by the likes of Perez and Jurgens (current volume of Superman). This is, until he ran into the Daemonite lord Helspont who thrashed him thoroughly (Superman annual I think, though they first met in #7 or 8). Clark then realized that despite the strength he had gained, the additional powers (like flight) and despite being the most powerful man on earth, he still wasnt strong enough.

    Enter the Lobdell run of Superman, where he has begun a workout routine to strengthen himself for the inevitable coming battle. This is the scene people are talking about where he lifts the planet's weight for five days without sun and barely breaks a sweat. He was not actually pushing the earth; this was done in a laboratory using equipment, overseen by the scientist Dr. Veritas (issue 12 I guess?)

    MAAAAN I wanted to say all that

  13. #118
    Senior Member ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob_Olivera View Post
    And I would assume that this should probably end all "Superman VS Wonder Woman" Rumble threads.

    You'd think so, but we've both been around long enough to know better. People will just use god mode instead of her standard levels.

    Of course, havent we been around long enough to also know that this sort of thing is essentially pointless? Scales and rankings dont really mean a damn thing. If a story calls for Superman and Diana to have a close, knock down drag out fight, that is what will happen. If a story calls for Clark to take on the rest of the League at once and trounce them like children, that is what will happen. Its all in service to the story. The problems only arise when the writer isnt up to the challenge.
    Last edited by Gaelforce; 02-05-2013 at 02:18 PM. Reason: Edited out snarky comment

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    MAAAAN I wanted to say all that
    Go for it man. You can say things too.

  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by ascended View Post
    You'd think so, but we've both been around long enough to know better. People will just use god mode instead of her standard levels.

    Of course, havent we been around long enough to also know that this sort of thing is essentially pointless? Scales and rankings dont really mean a damn thing. If a story calls for Superman and Diana to have a close, knock down drag out fight, that is what will happen. If a story calls for Clark to take on the rest of the League at once and trounce them like children, that is what will happen. Its all in service to the story. The problems only arise when the writer isnt up to the challenge.
    Oh? You mean like this?



    He can benchpress the Earth for 5 days, but needing Wonder Woman's help to lift a carrier that you need a microscope to find on the Earth from outerspace?

    Yeah.. I know. LOL

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