Are Aquaman and WW the same strength?

[brettc1]

What's interesting to me is that they are trying to stop a war and the lasso's truth power is completely overlooked. Again.

Let's face it, ArtHur should just be grateful she didn't cut him.

[Rob_Olivera]

This isnt a debate about logic and reason. This is a comic book and the topic in question involves people who can fly, claim divine blood, lift planets, breathe water, and shoot lasers from their eyes. Logic and reason have nothing to do with comics, and never have.

The real rub here is your personal suspension of disbelief and how far you're willing to push it within the confines of the internal logic box that is the DCU. And there is no right or wrong answer here, merely the limits you're willing to accept personally.

Anyway, as for why Orin is roughly around Diana's strength level if Atlanteans normally are not? Easy enough. Human meta-gene mixed with Atlantean DNA. There you go, internal continuity problem solved. Is Orin a metahuman? Likely no, but that's not to say his Atlantean DNA didnt get a boost from any latent metagenes from his human half.

Anyway, it seems like Diana's strength level has been brought down a notch since the reboot (not including "god mode" of course) a bit closer to her original levels, and it seems that Orin's has been, if not raised, then at least consistently shown at the full potential other writers have touched on before. Which is good, too many writers handle him as if his only powers involve talking to fish and breathing water.

So, I read through the issue pretty quickly the other day, in my rush to get to the Shazam backup so I had to go back for this.

Okay, Orin sucker punches Clark out of the fight for several pages, which might amount to as much as a full minute. Sure, I can buy that. It clearly didnt do any real damage, and knowing Clark he likely stopped on his way back to save some civilians. So sure, I can believe that Orin can do that. Its a sucker punch after all.

With Diana, the odds seem much more even, but I think I still give the advantage to Diana. He's able to knock her into the docks, while entangled in the lasso, which is pretty badass. But with one punch Diana sends him back across the warf and through a fishing boat, bringing blood along with it. Im not sure if he was able to hold her down with one hand, or if they were merely struggling for the advantage or if Diana was just letting him say his peace. But either way, she didnt seem to have any problems knocking him into the boat. And again, despite the blows being landed, Diana seems fairly unharmed.

None of which is to say that Orin is weak or anything. I figure this issue was written with him having a definitive advantage that might be pushing his established limits, but I dont see anything that goes over the line.

Ascended... The first two paragraphs of your response should be enough to even close this thread with a stamp on it reading "Resolved".

As to Wonder Woman being reduced a bit back into her pre-crisis levels.. I'd say maybe that's taking it a bit too far. Pre-Crisis Wonder Woman was not a hell of a lot stronger than Lynda Carter's Wonder Woman on TV. Unless you dive into the golden age and pull out scans of her lassoing the sun and tugging it while on the wing of her plane. I'm talking about AFTER comics were aimed at a somewhat older readership.

[Frank Fournier]

Anyway, it seems like Diana's strength level has been brought down a notch since the reboot (not including "god mode" of course) a bit closer to her original levels, and it seems that Orin's has been, if not raised, then at least consistently shown at the full potential other writers have touched on before. Which is good, too many writers handle him as if his only powers involve talking to fish and breathing water.

"Wonder Woman carries on an entire island above her head..." and "The mighty Amazon lassoes and hurls a time-bomb planet..." = her original levels [from the Golden Age].



What was 'his original levels' for Aquaman? I only remember him tossing a polar bear at bad guys.



At least, post-Crisis WW was more or less getting back to her original levels at one point.

Pre-Crisis Wonder Woman was not a hell of a lot stronger than Lynda Carter's Wonder Woman on TV. Unless you dive into the golden age and pull out scans of her lassoing the sun and tugging it while on the wing of her plane. I'm talking about AFTER comics were aimed at a somewhat older readership.

The out of the story explanation for your scan, Rob_Olivera, was indeed Gerry Conway matching at that time the WW TV show with low budget for special effects. That's why the Bronze Age Wonder Woman was so weak compared to her original levels.

[ascended]

Ascended... The first two paragraphs of your response should be enough to even close this thread with a stamp on it reading "Resolved".

As to Wonder Woman being reduced a bit back into her pre-crisis levels.. I'd say maybe that's taking it a bit too far. Pre-Crisis Wonder Woman was not a hell of a lot stronger than Lynda Carter's Wonder Woman on TV. Unless you dive into the golden age and pull out scans of her lassoing the sun and tugging it while on the wing of her plane. I'm talking about AFTER comics were aimed at a somewhat older readership.[/IMG]

Thanks man.

As for her powers, I was actually thinking of just before the reboot, when she was considered to be as close to an equal to Clark as it gets, not pre-Crisis or anything. Sorry if I didnt make that clear.

>edit< oh, okay. I see the line I wrote in that original post. That shouldnt have been there. Stray thought stumbled into my post, sorry!

[Rob_Olivera]

Thanks man.

As for her powers, I was actually thinking of just before the reboot, when she was considered to be as close to an equal to Clark as it gets, not pre-Crisis or anything. Sorry if I didnt make that clear.

>edit< oh, okay. I see the line I wrote in that original post. That shouldnt have been there. Stray thought stumbled into my post, sorry!

I would say that the most powerful WW I've seen post-crisis is arguably Byrne, which doesn't surprise me since he enjoyed writing and drawing She-Hulk a few years before... or, a toss-up with Rucka's. My only complaint about that (which is odd because I enjoy her being a flying brick) is the inconsistency of someone that powerful needing bracelets to deflect projectiles. I never did buy that "...but she can be hurt by sharp objects". She was shown deflecting a bullet without her bracelets under Phil Jimenez's era. That's when I knew we weren't in Kansas anymore.

[nj06]

We should also take into account that there is water everywhere and it is also raining which can only serve to help Aquaman; and yet it still seems that Wonder Woman has the strength advantage. This isn't to say that Aquaman is weak as I agree that he is a powerhouse in his own right.

[ascended]

I would say that the most powerful WW I've seen post-crisis is arguably Byrne, which doesn't surprise me since he enjoyed writing and drawing She-Hulk a few years before... or, a toss-up with Rucka's. My only complaint about that (which is odd because I enjoy her being a flying brick) is the inconsistency of someone that powerful needing bracelets to deflect projectiles. I never did buy that "...but she can be hurt by sharp objects". She was shown deflecting a bullet without her bracelets under Phil Jimenez's era. That's when I knew we weren't in Kansas anymore.

Yeah, agreed. Its been ages since I read any of Bryne's stuff, but I think I want to say Rucka had a more powerful Diana. That could just be me and my bias though, Rucka is one of my all time favorite runs with the character, and his showdown with Superman during Sacrifice was as hardcore as anything I have ever seen from Diana.

[Bluewing_A23]

I just skipped most of the posts here but I just want to say that Aquaman should have the same strength level as Wonder Woman.

Aquaman can breathe under water and communicate with fishes. Diana can fly, god mode, force truth with her lasso, hand-to-hand combat expert, and a lot more.

I remember when people here complained that if Diana can't fly then she can't win a match against people of the same strength level. If that's the case, why can't Arthur be as strong as Diana?

[brettc1]

I just skipped most of the posts here but I just want to say that Aquaman should have the same strength level as Wonder Woman.

Aquaman can breathe under water and communicate with fishes. Diana can fly, god mode, force truth with her lasso, hand-to-hand combat expert, and a lot more.

I remember when people here complained that if Diana can't fly then she can't win a match against people of the same strength level. If that's the case, why can't Arthur be as strong as Diana?

You might as well ask why cant Spider-Man be as strong as Thor or the Hulk?

[dupersuper]

It's a new continuity.
Previous feats don't actually count.

In the NuDC Aquaman is close to a peer with Wonder Woman.
This is consistently supported by his feats (an ocean liner weighs more than 100.000 tons) and the interviews from Johns. In the last IGN interview he mentions "Aquaman is one of the most powerful heroes in the DC universe."

Oh brother...

A half-human half-Atlantean is close to a peer with a half-Amazon half-god?

How is it possible for an Atlantean with human genes to be almost on the same level than an Amazon with genes from the king of the gods?

I can't wait to hear your explanation.

Vulko the completely normal Atlantean decked Superman earlier. Johns is getting carried away, IMO.

You accept what the writers put on the pages.

We do? Are you new to comic fandom?

This isnt a debate about logic and reason. This is a comic book and the topic in question involves people who can fly, claim divine blood, lift planets, breathe water, and shoot lasers from their eyes. Logic and reason have nothing to do with comics, and never have.

Internally consistent logic has something to do with most good comics...

...and yes, Aquaman decking Superman is past my suspension of disbelief threshold. It actually makes Aquamans line calling him "the most powerful person on the planet" later on laughable. Orm should've been "Him? The guy you took out of our fight with 1 punch?".

[Ood Omega]

It's a new continuity.
Previous feats don't actually count.

Actually I'm pretty sure its a "soft reboot" not an entirely new continuity. So not only did certain events happen, certain feats count as well.

[wagthedog]

Actually I'm pretty sure its a "soft reboot" not an entirely new continuity. So not only did certain events happen, certain feats count as well.

It is a soft reboot for some comics, but the Wonder Woman title is a hard reboot. Feats of strength are really only what has been seen so far in the nu52, as far as Wonder Woman is concerned.

[Stanlos]

Personally I would be okay with that, since a supercarrier like the Nimitz weighs 100 thousand tons! But they are also bracing it against the mass of the water behind it, so throw on another 250 thousand tons multiplied by the velocity of the wave. Thats impressive - unless you subscribe the fanwankery of Superman holding the weight of the planet for five days [sadly there is no self gratification emoticon available]

Is it fanwankery? In the Complete History for Superman it speaks of his creators thinking of Samson and intending Superman to be modern Hercules of sorts. If you are on par with the mythical Hercules then those hundreds of thousands of tons are not really a bother. (don't shoot me)

[Stanlos]

It's a new continuity.
Previous feats don't actually count.

In the NuDC Aquaman is close to a peer with Wonder Woman.
This is consistently supported by his feats (an ocean liner weighs more than 100.000 tons) and the interviews from Johns. In the last IGN interview he mentions "Aquaman is one of the most powerful heroes in the DC universe."

During the fight Wonder Woman attacked Aquaman from behind first and then Aquaman rushed her at superspeed.
He didn't punch her, but he was holding her down with his hand as he was the one trying to stop the fight from escalating (before Batman set him on fire)

Fans have to understand that Johns ALWAYS portrayed Aquaman at this level.
During the Crisis of Concience storyline in JLA he went toe to toe with Despero, who had previously koed Martian Manhunter.
During Infinite Crisis he took on his whole rogues gallery, which include established 100 characters like the Deep Six and King Shark (before Gail Simone nerfed him, but made him more awesome in the amazing Secret Six series)
In Flashpoint, issue 4 Aquaman had Wonder Woman at his mercy, pinned to the ground with the Trident, before she was saved by Captain Thunder.
And now he shows that he can take a punch from an angry Wonder Woman to the face with only a slightly bloody lip.

I'm not posting to stir you up, but I'm just providing some background on what to expect from Aquaman's power level.
He is up there, might not be quite on Wonder Woman's level, but she would certainly know she was in a tough fight.

And the Trident does not amplify his strength.
Up to this pint is just an invulnerable signature weapon.

Soooooooooooooooooo the new universe version is finally comparable to Marvel's Namor?

[Bluewing_A23]

You might as well ask why cant Spider-Man be as strong as Thor or the Hulk?

Spider-man can do a lot of stuff. The Hulk doesn't have anything so he got strength to compensate for it.

Wonder Woman can do lots of stuff, and super strong. Aquaman can only talk to fishes, and just strong.