Captain America: Why do you dislike him?

[Movieartman]

He's not talking about the Phoenix, he's talking about How Steve, because he was working for the government (even though he may not have represented it very well) got off scott free compared to Summers, who essentially had his life destroyed. It plays to feelings of people feeling stepped on by an uncaring, unfeeling bureaucracy. I.e. "I fought the law and the law won." Which brings up the question of what if the law is wrong? Doesn't matter, you still get squashed. It's pretty unfair.

he got his life destroyed cus he choose to fight against the good guys trying to defend there planet, and he deserved it as he was risking Billions of lives for his own 200 species benefit, im not saying humans are more important than mutants, they where just as likely to be killed by the firebird if it went crazy as the humans. cap was defending not just humans and the Government but ALL living things on the planet

It's not a planet destroying entity, that's just a side effect. It's a cosmic law.

and is Guess where supose to just lay down and DIE just so we dont upset cosmic Law

[Sighphi]

Cap never looses much like Wolverine but with Wolverine there is a reason in that he can keep coming back. Cap on the other hand isn't on that same level, Cap is still just a human so his never loosing just gets annoying. Specially when writer dont think of inventive ways of how he keeps winning, writers just make him win just because.

And Cap is always right simply because he is Cap,that is as worst as his always winning.

[celticguy]

This thread is gonna be catnip for lunatics.

yup bring on the ranters

[Movieartman]

>Created by two Jewish dudes who thought it would be cool to turn Hitlers ideology against him
>Self Insert
Wut

not sure how a defender of freedom is the same ideology of Hitler

[West]

Tom Brevoort on his Formspring. A lot of X-Fans were pissed off that Cap got out of AvX without facing any repercussions when Cyclops is now an outlaw. Cap could do whatever he wants and the narrative will be always on his side. Tom basically said in as many words that Cap was working for the American government so he can do whatever he wants and it's totally justified.

Considering what Mutant kind represents for a lot of X-Fans, this did NOT go down well. It's got nothing to do with ''America'' it's a social issue. Another reason why so many X-Fans hate the idea of UA.

Really though Take bervoot with a grain of salt please. He's all about making money, not character derailment

not sure how a defender of freedom is the same ideology of Hitler

You misunderstand what I type

turn Hitlers ideology against him

You know a guy having blond hair and blue eyes punching Hitler in the face

[MAXIMUMMAN]

Ultimate Cap was always a little bit of an A-hole, and now he seems less like an a-hole while the real cap is moving in that direction.

I think hes forgotten what its like to be powerless. The status quo is great for him cause it holds him up. He should go back to being the weakling for awhile to learn humility.

[Hehey]

Really though Take bervoot with a grain of salt please. He's all about making money, not character derailment

If making money ever necessitates character derailment, then yes he is.

[West]

If making money ever necessitates character derailment, then yes he is.

Should have phrased it better. He's about money not caring about character derailment or potential hypocritical actions. Lets not forget AVX writers like Bendis didn't even pay attention to other issues, so yeah poor writing

[MichaelChen]

>Created by two Jewish dudes who thought it would be cool to turn Hitlers ideology against him
>Self Insert
Wut

Read my post more carefully. It doesn't matter who created him, because he is a perpetual self-insert for every new writer, effectively a way for them to preach in a story that makes the side they are preaching against 100% wrong and their own side 100% right.

[PwrdOff]

Cap is kind of like America itself. People just seem to be harsher to judge America for things that they would readily excuse if any other country did them. It's a sort of curse of relevance, I suppose.

[T.M. Anthony]

I think people have a problem with the perception of him, which projects a jingoistic and mary sue tool for a flawed country that can never be wrong because AMURICAH!

i don't know where this infallibility thing is coming from, steve is wrong plenty of times and isn't perfect at everything. He does what he feels is right and has an inspiring edge and good resolve to him that makes him a good leader. But he's certainly not perfect he makes a wrong move and hesitates all the time.

People nowadays hate on him even more because he's officially "the man". Cause y'know f#ck the man. the man is just trying to bring us down.

How dare he take a job he's trusted with to help others through government sanctioned means! what a tool...

I suppose thats what happens when you're the high school quarter back of sorts, you're propped up as something great and that makes people want to counter that thought with criticism over how perfect everybody's treating him, even if the QB has his own troubles not portrayed at pep rally (if that makes sense)

WHy is this guy so great? why can't he be in a bad situation! why does he always pull through!

I dismiss that because Cap isn't some perfect guy, and marvel doesn't treat him like he can do no wrong. SO whenever I hear the argument of infallibility I roll my eyes.

He's got that in common with superman really. Both are the ideal heroes of their respective universes, both are considered infallible boy scouts, but both really have troubles dealing with their role despite their pure sense of doing the right thing, and both have have made the wrong call at times despite still having the trust of the general populace.

Long story short, people hate Cap because he's perfect, even though he's not.

[ironduke555]

Well Cap goofed up pretty big in his own book at moment.So he does make mistakes and he was wrong in AvX.So the argument of him always being right makes no sense to me.Anyway King Kirby was his co-creator and he punched Hitler ALOT!Steve will always be my favorite just like everyone else has theirs.

[West]

Read my post more carefully. It doesn't matter who created him, because he is a perpetual self-insert for every new writer, effectively a way for them to preach in a story that makes the side they are preaching against 100% wrong and their own side 100% right.

That's only bad writers you mean. When a good writer such as Waid or Brubaker handles him your accusations ring false

[godzilla2099]

Tom Brevoort on his Formspring. A lot of X-Fans were pissed off that Cap got out of AvX without facing any repercussions when Cyclops is now an outlaw. Cap could do whatever he wants and the narrative will be always on his side. Tom basically said in as many words that Cap was working for the American government so he can do whatever he wants and it's totally justified.

Considering what Mutant kind represents for a lot of X-Fans, this did NOT go down well. It's got nothing to do with ''America'' it's a social issue. Another reason why so many X-Fans hate the idea of UA.

He's not talking about the Phoenix, he's talking about How Steve, because he was working for the government (even though he may not have represented it very well) got off scott free compared to Summers, who essentially had his life destroyed. It plays to feelings of people feeling stepped on by an uncaring, unfeeling bureaucracy. I.e. "I fought the law and the law won." Which brings up the question of what if the law is wrong? Doesn't matter, you still get squashed. It's pretty unfair.

^captain america is the law now. that's what people have a problem with.

I found all of these points excellent.

My two cents.

I don't hate the character. AvX left a bad taste in my mouth for these above reasons. Captain America made some incredibly naive decisions which turned a bad situation into a much worse one. To top it off, he faced no repercussions for those choices.

However, this is a double edged sword. I was a huge fan of Bucky Cap and barely a casual fan of Steve. One problem I had with Steve was that he was 'too perfect.' These last few events did not do Captain America any favors as portraying him as an effective leader so he is catching my interest more than ever now.

[manos]

I think people have a problem with the perception of him, which projects a jingoistic and mary sue tool for a flawed country that can never be wrong because AMURICAH!

i don't know where this infallibility thing is coming from, steve is wrong plenty of times and isn't perfect at everything. He does what he feels is right and has an inspiring edge and good resolve to him that makes him a good leader. But he's certainly not perfect he makes a wrong move and hesitates all the time.

People nowadays hate on him even more because he's officially "the man". Cause y'know f#ck the man. the man is just trying to bring us down.

How dare he take a job he's trusted with to help others through government sanctioned means! what a tool...

I suppose thats what happens when you're the high school quarter back of sorts, you're propped up as something great and that makes people want to counter that thought with criticism over how perfect everybody's treating him, even if the QB has his own troubles not portrayed at pep rally (if that makes sense)

WHy is this guy so great? why can't he be in a bad situation! why does he always pull through!

I dismiss that because Cap isn't some perfect guy, and marvel doesn't treat him like he can do no wrong. SO whenever I hear the argument of infallibility I roll my eyes.

He's got that in common with superman really. Both are the ideal heroes of their respective universes, both are considered infallible boy scouts, but both really have troubles dealing with their role despite their pure sense of doing the right thing, and both have have made the wrong call at times despite still having the trust of the general populace.

Long story short, people hate Cap because he's perfect, even though he's not.

Nicely put. This is why I never take the sides of people who hate him, because the majority of it is just utter
copy paste of "He's too perfect" crap. Hell if theirs one character I hate in comics but not animation its Batman,
he's prompt up to be this unbeatable hero beating everyone including superhumans with little exhaustion that I find him more of a Mary sue than any other
non powered hero.