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  1. #1

    Default Captain America: Why do you dislike him?

    It occured to me Cap has many haters among the community. why is that? several arguments imho make no sense.

    -his treatment of mutant rights: i agree he hadnt been supportive before-but he IS supportive now!
    -more powerful heroes jobing for him: thats not done in an extreme way, except in the Kid Omega issue(omega level mutant=cosmic power level, not just a powerful mutant.please retcon Quentin to just be alpha level like xavier) Cap HAS lost many fights, and will mostly lose OR win 'realisticaly' if fighting a more powerful guy(example: his fight with Cable in AvX). unlike a certain mutant who has had his healing factor upgraded more times than Reed Richards can count)...

    -the AvX debacle: i agree he failed diplomaticaly, because the way he negotiated forced cyclops' hand imo;he should have seen cyke was desperate and acted differently. but he WAS right in wanting to delay the phoenix force and examine/aid the situation as best as he can(NO, he didnt wanna kill hope, thats DUMB).

    also, in UA i kinda get the impression Cap might not be as angry at cyke as others. he seems more sympathetic than ppl think, not a jerk! he talked to Havok to lead the team cause "Xavier is dead, Scott is locked up"(meaning, he considers cyke a possible co-avenger, even hypotheticaly) it doesnt mean he handwaives what cyke did, but it does mean he doesnt view it with a monolithic point of view!

    so... whats with the hate!

  2. #2
    MAX Imprinted hacman00's Avatar
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    This thread is gonna be catnip for lunatics.

  3. #3
    ❤ Walking with thee ❤ Ian Pressman's Avatar
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    It's cyclical and rooted in real-life politics. Citizens of the worldwide community look at Cap and see a representation of how they think Americans view themselves, so they use him to accuse Americans of jingoism and self-aggrandizement, and Americans can't really argue back because we had a dumb president a few years back who blew up a lot of stuff and got a lot of people killed. Ten years from now, it'll be water under the bridge and no one will mind 'ol wingtips. For now, just put up with it.
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  4. #4
    Classified Bl00dwerK's Avatar
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    I don't hate him.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daesim View Post
    and Americans can't really argue back because we had a dumb president a few years back who blew up a lot of stuff and got a lot of people killed.
    not really sure What the f##k, um THEY ATTACKED US! soldiers die in Freaking War, and we had to freaking keep them from comiting another 911. what would YOU do as president? NOT DEFEND THE COUNTRY? Terrorist defending Jerk.
    and dont give me bloody "where only there for the Oil crap" even if its true, more good has been done than not, YES we didnt find any WMDs but going there and there not being any is MUCH better than Not going and there being even 1

    and even if they didnt have any nukes, in the 80s/90s Sadam exposed over 4000 innocent turkish citizens to Poison Gas, the F$$ker had to be put Down

  6. #6
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    A dated jingoistic concept along with Marvel basically admitting that he'll always be right and perfect because he has the flag on his chest=perfect example of american exceptionalism equals to the character being inherently bad no matter how he's written in an individual issue.

    I rarely would call a character ''bad'' fullstop, because even a bad character can be good in the hands of the right writer, but Captain America is a ''bad'' character.

    It's to be expected given the reason he was created though.

  7. #7
    Senior Member timeismoney's Avatar
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    Guys let us leave the real world stuff in the real world, before this turn ugly.

    As for the question, X fans didn't start the hate of Cap and everything Avengers until. The mess that was AVX, that is where most of the Cap hate comes from.
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  8. #8
    Hopeful Writer Darkspellmaster's Avatar
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    Edit: due to request for things not to turn ugly.

    Anyway onto Captian, I think a lot of the flack he gets is because writers in some cases have to make him the opposite of Tony. If Tony skews one way then Steave have to skew the other way. If they want Cyc and the X men to be "Poor babies" then they have to have Cap and the Avengers acting unnatural.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by timeismoney View Post
    Guys let us leave the real world stuff in the real world, before this turn ugly.
    You can't have this conversation without bringing the real world into it, considering it plays so much of a role in the character's portrayal.

  10. #10
    Groupthink is Groupthink neohuey89's Avatar
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    I personally think it's unfair that comic book characters get sucked into real life politics, but I guess Captain America was originally made for that reason. I also think his status above other heroes pisses people off. Captain America and Black Panther were my favorites growing up, but as I got older I did wish to see him get caught up in the petty drama that other characters suffer from. it seems he is above that and I think that also turns fans away. Also please let's drop all the war nonsense.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspellmaster View Post
    If they want Cyc and the X men to be "Poor babies" then they have to have Cap and the Avengers acting unnatural.
    Good luck finding any Avengers writer or editor ever saying that they wanted Cap to act unnatural or felt he was out of line in AVX. You'll find PLENTY of opinions saying the complete opposite actually. Another reason that people resent the character and Cyclops being super popular now.

  12. #12
    Hopeful Writer Darkspellmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optic Rage View Post
    You can't have this conversation without bringing the real world into it, considering it plays so much of a role in the character's portrayal.
    When he was first concived, like most other superheros at the time, there was a considerable attitude that America was the best. We were in the middle of a war and when that time was over he was put aside until Stan Lee came up with a way to use him. He's become less of a "Symbol" more of a person in the years that have come. It depends on the writer also and their take on Steve.

  13. #13
    Hopeful Writer Darkspellmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optic Rage View Post
    Good luck finding any Avengers writer or editor ever saying that they wanted Cap to act unnatural or felt he was out of line in AVX. You'll find PLENTY of opinions saying the complete opposite actually. Another reason that people resent the character and Cyclops being super popular now.
    But in a lot of cases he is written a certain way so that a story will play out. Cyc has the popularity thing going because "We went dark" and honestly the idea of him becoming the next magneto (which is which some are claiming) is a rather off kilter idea.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspellmaster View Post
    When he was first concived, like most other superheros at the time, there was a considerable attitude that America was the best. We were in the middle of a war and when that time was over he was put aside until Stan Lee came up with a way to use him. He's become less of a "Symbol" more of a person in the years that have come. It depends on the writer also and their take on Steve.
    I'm aware. But how do you expect people to feel when you basically have the head Avengers editor say that Steve will always be right and the narrative will always be on his side because he's Captain America? I don't hate America, but taking an attitude like this to a character in fiction insures that he'll never be a ''good'' character.

    Talk about shooting yourself in the foot without even realizing it.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optic Rage View Post
    A dated jingoistic concept along with Marvel basically admitting that he'll always be right and perfect because he has the flag on his chest=perfect example of american exceptionalism equals to the character being inherently bad no matter how he's written in an individual issue.
    i dont think anyone would say cap is supose to be perfect and right Aways just cus he represents america.
    i will tone down the real world stuff after this last statement
    NO AMERICA IS NOT PERFECT, Yes we have made mastakes, BUT its the CONCEPT of america that is what is so good and special about the country and character, i don't know if we are the greatest country on earth, but the concept of us being Free sure as F$$k better be in what ever country is the greatest

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