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  1. #316
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikekerrIII View Post
    Great logic if you are a fascist or a communist, but not of much value in a democracy or a place that thinks people have rights. even your quote has the individual concerned making the choice volentarily
    Here's what Breevort said on the matter:

    "Cap was empowered by the President and the proper authorities to make that trip to Utopia."
    http://www.formspring.me/TomBrevoort...21451559087006

    "Again, though, an action sanctioned by the President and the government. At that point, it's not kidnapping, it's arrest (or, really, bringing somebody in for questioning.)"
    http://www.formspring.me/TomBrevoort...39545093761313

    But if Scott is the leader of that community, and he denies Hope the right to choose whether herself what she wants, wouldn't that make him the facist?

  2. #317
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    all that shows is tom brevoort is uneducated about mutant rights. they declared themselves sovereign, it's still attempted kidnapping.

  3. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneGold View Post
    Fully armed, which apparently involves not having any actual armaments. And before you say the shield, you meant the non-lethal thing? At best, that's lightly armed. Never says "or else." As that was specifically quoted. So yeah, I'm, sticking by what I said.
    you'd need a bit of context for the "or else." the hidden army in the sky and his specific quote of "you do understand i wasn't asking." or don't tell me you don't understand the concept of subtext?

  4. #319
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AcesX1X View Post
    all that shows is tom brevoort is uneducated about mutant rights. they declared themselves sovereign, it's still attempted kidnapping.
    "A place doesn't become a sovereign nation just because somebody says so. That's U.S. territory."
    http://www.formspring.me/TomBrevoort...65356474889554

  5. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    "A place doesn't become a sovereign nation just because somebody says so. That's U.S. territory."
    http://www.formspring.me/TomBrevoort...65356474889554
    that's his opinion. the x-office felt different. and since the x-men's story was literally hijacked by the avengers office and all their incompetence, readers are fully justified rejecting it.

    iron man directly addresses this within the story when he asks captain america what the hell they're supposed to charge them with since they are international.

    so please take your editor's comments and run along. tom brevoort has displayed more than once that he doesn't really care enough about the x-men to get things right.
    Last edited by AcesX1X; 01-31-2013 at 06:47 AM.

  6. #321
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AcesX1X View Post
    that's his opinion. the x-office felt different. and since the x-men's story was literally hijacked by the avengers office and all their incompetence, readers are fully justified rejecting it.

    iron man directly addresses this within the story when he asks captain america what the hell they're supposed to charge them with since they are international.

    so please take your editor's comments and run along. tom brevoort has displayed more than once that he doesn't really care enough about the x-men to get things right.
    Funny, I don't recall the words "since they are international" coming out of Starks mouth in that scene.

    No offense, but I think I'll take the editors word over statements you only imagined Stark making.

  7. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Funny, I don't recall the words "since they are international" coming out of Starks mouth in that scene.

    No offense, but I think I'll take the editors word over statements you only imagined Stark making.
    anyone familiar with utopia at all knows what stark meant since utopia IS international and the united states has no jurisdiction there.

    but, yes. please take tom brevoort's opinions for truth. why not!? he's the guy who thinks greg pak invented the white hot room.

  8. #323
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AcesX1X View Post
    anyone familiar with utopia at all knows what stark meant since utopia IS international and the united states has no jurisdiction there.

    but, yes. please take tom brevoort's opinions for truth. why not!? he's the guy who thinks greg pak invented the white hot room.
    Fair enough. Then it should be simple enough for you to give us citation on a book which confirms that the US government has recognized Utopia as a sovern nation. Feel free to do so.

  9. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Fair enough. Then it should be simple enough for you to give us citation on a book which confirms that the US government has recognized Utopia as a sovern nation. Feel free to do so.
    utopia doesn't need the u.s. government to confirm it. during the trial of magneto, the courts decided that mutants were a nation unto themselves. perhaps that's why you and tom are so confused about mutant rights.

    osborn had to back off from attacking the x-men once they got to utopia because the x-men declared their sovereignity to escape him.

    not only that, but utopia is located in atlantean waters. atlantis has been a recognized sovereign nation since the 1970s and that was the entire basis of the agreement between namor and the x-men. it's why he relocated his people to join with the x-men.

    and before you question whether atlantis has the power to take property from the united states, atlantis has sovereign over whatever waters they claim. and namor proved that in uncanny x-men when he issued a royal decree to blockade the san francisco bay.

  10. #325
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AcesX1X View Post
    utopia doesn't need the u.s. government to confirm it. during the trial of magneto, the courts decided that mutants were a nation unto themselves. perhaps that's why you and tom are so confused about mutant rights.

    osborn had to back off from attacking the x-men once they got to utopia because the x-men declared their sovereignity to escape him.

    not only that, but utopia is located in atlantean waters. atlantis has been a recognized sovereign nation since the 1970s and that was the entire basis of the agreement between namor and the x-men. it's why he relocated his people to join with the x-men.

    and before you question whether atlantis has the power to take property from the united states, atlantis has sovereign over whatever waters they claim. and namor proved that in uncanny x-men when he issued a royal decree to blockade the san francisco bay.
    Considering that Utopia resides on US territory in San Francisco Bay, I would imagine it does kind of need the US government to confirm that it's succeeding a portion of it's territory to Cyclops.

    But let's be specifc here... what specific issues and scenes flat out state that Utopia is recgonized as it's own soverign nation by someone other than the mutants living there?

  11. #326

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    Well, I don't hate Cap. It does bug me the way his Abilities are written. On paper there is no way He wouldn't be completely dominated ina fight with Spidey or Warpath or any other 10 -20 class character with superhuman or Peak Human( ?) agility and even high average skill. I'd be totally cool if they'd find a way to give cap just a littttttle super strength- Say being able to press 2 and a quarter tons or so.

  12. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Considering that Utopia resides on US territory in San Francisco Bay, I would imagine it does kind of need the US government to confirm that it's succeeding a portion of it's territory to Cyclops.

    But let's be specifc here... what specific issues and scenes flat out state that Utopia is recgonized as it's own soverign nation by someone other than the mutants living there?



  13. #328
    Prostitution Whores! Talisman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AcesX1X View Post


    X-Poster of the Month: May 2013
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  14. #329

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Scarlet Sapien View Post
    Well, I don't hate Cap. It does bug me the way his Abilities are written. On paper there is no way He wouldn't be completely dominated ina fight with Spidey or Warpath or any other 10 -20 class character with superhuman or Peak Human( ?) agility and even high average skill. I'd be totally cool if they'd find a way to give cap just a littttttle super strength- Say being able to press 2 and a quarter tons or so.
    just because they are stronger doesn't mean cap can't find a way to win.

    he doesn't need super-human strength to beat spider-man, only good tactics.

    For instance one of his villains master man was objectionably stronger than him, but that doesn't keep him from beating him.

    powers help but they don't equal the man. its not like heroes don't beat more power heavy characters all of the time. It'd be boring if the result was always predictable (and before somebody says it, a victory for Captain America is not always insured just because he's cap. he's lost as many times a he's won)

    and can we leave this stupid AvX argument alone? its a beaten horse by now.
    Steve Rogers: You ready to follow Captain America into the jaws of death?
    James Barnes: Hell, no! The little guy from Brooklyn who was too dumb not to run away from a fight. I'm following him."

  15. #330
    Veteran Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    I probably will never dislike Cap, however, have to admit I haven't been much too thrilled with Marvel's portrait of the man in recent years. Current Cap is too much in sync with his more radical right-winger Ultimate U version. Being a product of the past in no way means being a reactionary. He lacks humility and doesn't ponder enough on his actions. Being a good leader doesn't mean never being wrong. It does, however, mean being able to recognize when you are wrong and act accordingly to correct these mistakes. Marvel has been trying too hard to paint Cap as this guy that everyone thinks is always perfect, however, it has also been trying to reenforce the image that it's characters are heroes with feet of clay. What we get, IMHO, is a Captain America made of mud.

    Peace

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