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  1. #1
    New Member super52man's Avatar
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    Default John Williams has gone AWOL!

    Look,

    I am not one of those purists who swear off the movie and music for Man of Steel because they dumped Williams theme, but what is YOUR opinion on this event. (Yeah, it's old news, but I still want your opinion.)

  2. #2
    evil maybe, genius no stk's Avatar
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    Not using the Williams theme was a great move, and, in fact, unavoidable.

    This is a different character. With a completely different tone. I don't understand what is hard to get about that. The Williams theme would no more work for this Superman than Elfman's Batman theme would have worked in Nolan's movies. And that would not have worked at all.

    And I don't get the use of the word "purist" to describe a love of Williams. I love his Superman score as well, but it's not like that is the one, true Superman theme. It might be the best, it might be my favorite, but it's not the only valid one and far from the first. The character wasn't born with it. There have been many, many others, before and since. And some feel more "true" to different versions of the character than Williams' theme would if you superimposed it.

  3. #3
    It's Lexrules... GET HIM. Lexrules's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stk View Post
    Not using the Williams theme was a great move, and, in fact, unavoidable.

    This is a different character. With a completely different tone. I don't understand what is hard to get about that. The Williams theme would no more work for this Superman than Elfman's Batman theme would have worked in Nolan's movies. And that would not have worked at all.

    And I don't get the use of the word "purist" to describe a love of Williams. I love his Superman score as well, but it's not like that is the one, true Superman theme. It might be the best, it might be my favorite, but it's not the only valid one and far from the first. The character wasn't born with it. There have been many, many others, before and since. And some feel more "true" to different versions of the character than Williams' theme would if you superimposed it.
    No, it is the one true Superman theme. You will never hear another piece of music associated to a character like The Williams theme is to Superman. Their is no way in hell anyone will match it so to say otherwise is wrong.

    The only composer would would be able to match it would be Williams himself.

  4. #4
    evil maybe, genius no stk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexrules View Post
    No, it is the one true Superman theme. You will never hear another piece of music associated to a character like The Williams theme is to Superman. Their is no way in hell anyone will match it so to say otherwise is wrong.
    Gee, did you grow up in the late '70s/early '80s? What a shock.

    Let me come at this from another angle, since you seem so determined not to put thought into this. You've seen the trailer. You've seen the costume. You've seen the tone, the color palette, and everything else they are going for in the upcoming movie. Why in the world would you want Williams' Superman theme associated with this character -- who is so clearly not any kind of Superman you recognize or have any interest in? Wouldn't that be the last thing you want?

  5. #5
    Blue Boba ABH-1979's Avatar
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    Yeah, the Williams theme is fantastic, but it belongs to the Donner movies. Or, at least, it should.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexrules View Post
    No, it is the one true Superman theme. You will never hear another piece of music associated to a character like The Williams theme is to Superman. Their is no way in hell anyone will match it so to say otherwise is wrong.

    The only composer would would be able to match it would be Williams himself.
    Superman had theme songs for decades before those goofy 70's movies. The theme is whimsical and almost silly. Also, often confused with Indiana Jones.

    Don't overrate things because you're hung up on misplaced nostalgia. Not everyone here is 50 years old.

  7. #7
    The Fastest Post Alive! Buried Alien's Avatar
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    The three musical cues I associate most with Superman are the Fleischer cartoons theme, the 1950s ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN theme, and the Donner/Singer films theme. Each of these was distinct (nobody would mistake any one of them for the others), and yet, the three did share a similar underlying tone. They *all* screamed, "SUPERMAN!"

    The most important thing for the new one is that it also scream, "SUPERMAN!"

    If the new theme plays, and people are thinking of a different superhero, then something will have gone wrong.

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    Get it right, people.

  8. #8
    Senior Member clownprince01's Avatar
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    Snyder already rather eloquently said why he's not using the Williams theme and I agree. If you're giving the character a fresh start, you can't then just borrow the old music.

    From a more realistic perspective, like STK has said, just because a theme song is great, doesn't meant it'll fit the tone of the film. Doubtless you've seen the countless fan videos on Youtube syncing up the Williams theme to the VERY moody and grim trailers. It just doesn't work. Just like Nolan's Batman wouldn't have worked with Danny Elfman's theme.

    Using the theme would also mean having to adapt the rest of the score to the theme like John Ottman did for Superman Returns. And they wouldn't get Williams himself because he doesn't work for anyone nowadays unless that persons name is Steven Spielberg or George Lucas.

    Besides, we have Hans Zimmer. I'd say that's a pretty damn good alternative.
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  9. #9
    Veteran Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    I've said it many times but its my opinion that the Superman theme is the best theme from a movie score of all time. With that said however its the right move not to use it. Whether the new score matches the majesty of Williams' original score is irrelevant (it probably won't), the fact is if you're making your own Superman movie, make your own movie. This isn't like a Star Wars sequel, its designed from top to bottom as its own, stand-alone franchise separate from the Donner films. If that's your aim, its not only wise, its demanded that you not rely it in any way, shape or form.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Ironman2978's Avatar
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    the previous posters said it perfectly, while John Williams Superman theme is great, it's only good for Richard Donner Superman(and in a few cases like the 80s Superboy theme, Singer Superman and Smallville Superman) people who become Reeve like Superman. However there has been plenty of good Superman movies and shows that didn't use or didn't need that specific theme and made perfectly fine Superman themes(Fleischer cartoons theme, the 1950s ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN theme, the Bruce Timm Superman cartoons, the theme Smallville used for Clark in season 8-10, Lois and Clark, etc) and they were still equally Superman themes and still great Superman theme songs. and the Williams theme wouldn't fit for this Superman as much as it wouldn't fit for Fleischer's Superman or the DCAU Superman or like clownprince01 said how " Nolan's Batman wouldn't have worked with Danny Elfman's theme." or even how Webb Spider-man wouldn't have worked with Danny Elfman's theme.

    If there are different superhero actors and movies why can't there be different superhero theme songs?
    Last edited by Ironman2978; 01-24-2013 at 07:38 PM.
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  11. #11
    I'm Right, You're Wrong King Krypton's Avatar
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    The Williams music really only works within the context of the Reeve/Routh films. There, it fits and you wouldn't want any other music in its place. Whenever I've tried to listen to it while reading the comics, it never, ever fits. No matter what era of the comics I'm reading, the Williams score feels out of place. Try as I might, I can't make that association between the movie music and what's on the page. I actually find myself associating comic book Superman with other film scores by other composers. Jerry Goldsmith, James Horner, Michael Kamen, Erich Wolfgang Korngold, Max Steiner, David Arnold...those are some of the composers that I think of when reading the comics.

    With the other Superman movies, TV shows, and cartoons...I don't think the Williams music would fit with them, either. There's too much difference in tone, style, and approach between them all for the Williams stuff to ever be applied to them all. (If anything, I think the theme song to Lois & Clark was far more heroic and powerful than the show ever even thought of being.) Each version of Superman has -- and should have -- its own music, its own sound, its own style. I'll even say this: I don't think each Superman theme needs to have a three-note motif echoing his name. It just isn't essential to composing a good theme. Give me a memorable melody and a big heroic sound, and I'm good with it. I've seen the Man of Steel trailers reedited on Youtube with the Williams music, and yet again, that music just does not fit any version of Superman outside of the Reeve/Routh series. It's too specific to what it was written for to work with anything else. And I would feel the same way if they tried to Hulk-smash one of the other Superman themes to every other version. A new Superman project = a new score. It's just a necessity.

    So what do I think of the Williams music being retired? I think it's time. Superman won't be broken by its absence.

  12. #12
    Paladin Kurosawa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexrules View Post
    No, it is the one true Superman theme. You will never hear another piece of music associated to a character like The Williams theme is to Superman. Their is no way in hell anyone will match it so to say otherwise is wrong.

    The only composer would would be able to match it would be Williams himself.
    I love the Williams theme but MOS doesn't deserve such good music. It's going to be a generic emo sludgefest and it deserves a generic theme to go with it. You can't match that proud, heroic uplifting theme to a movie shot in dingy gray that is embarrassed to be what it is.
    Last edited by Kurosawa; 01-24-2013 at 08:29 PM.
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  13. #13
    Senior Member Ironman2978's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurosawa View Post
    I love the Williams theme but MOS doesn't deserve such good music. It's going to be a generic emo sludgefest and it deserves a generic theme to go with it. You can't match that proud, heroic uplifting theme to a movie shot in dingy gray that is embarrassed to be what it is.
    What? I just....what? "speachless".


    We honestly must have been watching 2 different Man of Steel trailers then because the Man of Steel trailer screamed Superman to me(heroic, bold, filled with hope and definitely not embarrassed to be Superman) and it didn't need the John Williams theme to make it any more or any less of a Superman movie.
    Last edited by Ironman2978; 01-24-2013 at 08:36 PM.
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  14. #14
    Senior Member Tra-EL's Avatar
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    I think I've indulged in this many of times and in a nutshell in this thread, all I got to say is, I'm about ready to hear something DIFFERENT associated with Superman. I want to see something in front of me I have never seen NOR heard of before. It adds to the anticipation for Man of Steel. Everything is quite new and at the core, FRESH, which ultimately comes back to the element of surprise and excitement.

  15. #15
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    I'm looking forward to something fresh. Superman has had a lot of theme songs. The Adventures of Superman is my favorite.

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