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  1. #31
    I'm Right, You're Wrong King Krypton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    It's only a lie to you. To this Superman it's all he know it's what made him into the man he is today. It would be like me coming up to you and saying hey I could go back in time and change everything about the past that you know and when I get back you will essentially be dead and replaced by a whole other person......fun, right? No. Superman is the man of tomorrow not the man of maybe was or the man of yesterday that could have been. If he makes a mistake then he lives with it as best as he can and he presses forward.

    Besides Pandora actually said that the three times lines (Dc, Vertigo, and Wildstorm) coming together turned into the original time line and that it made the "strongest" time line. So this time line may be how things are meant to be and it may be needed.

    Also we also have the fact that if the time line were reset them many people would just die because they where only alive in the post flashpoit world. So Superman would be trading one set of lives for another.......this Superman would not do that in any situation.


    I think DC would just be smarter to just do a "it was a different universe" explanation if they ever felt the need to go back to the old.
    I really don't see them going back the old on any permanent basis. The DCU didn't reset to the Silver/Bronze Age version following Infinite Crisis, and I remember vividly some fans demanding the Superman franchise do exactly that at least as far back as 1999. Nor did the Superman franchise default back to the Byrne-Jurgens era following Infinite Crisis, and I wish I could forget the insane screaming and crying from fans of that era who just could not abide seeing it retired, let alone replaced by Birthright and Secret Origin. Whenever any iteration of Superman comes to an end, it's replaced with a new one, not an old one dusted off. When it comes time for the DC-Nu to end, we'll have another new version of Superman coming in.

    I guess you could have the old timeline exist in the multiverse, but even then it's not going to be the version the franchise goes to when it's time to reboot again. Some were hoping against hope that the Byrne-Jurgens version existing in the multiverse meant that it would become the dominant version of Superman again, and that was never, ever going to happen. What you could do, I suppose, is an anthology book where creators pick and choose which versions of Superman they want to use for their stories and use that to spotlight the various incarnations of the past. Otherwise, the only way to go is forward.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Krypton View Post
    I really don't see them going back the old on any permanent basis. The DCU didn't reset to the Silver/Bronze Age version following Infinite Crisis, and I remember vividly some fans demanding the Superman franchise do exactly that at least as far back as 1999. Nor did the Superman franchise default back to the Byrne-Jurgens era following Infinite Crisis, and I wish I could forget the insane screaming and crying from fans of that era who just could not abide seeing it retired, let alone replaced by Birthright and Secret Origin. Whenever any iteration of Superman comes to an end, it's replaced with a new one, not an old one dusted off. When it comes time for the DC-Nu to end, we'll have another new version of Superman coming in.

    I guess you could have the old timeline exist in the multiverse, but even then it's not going to be the version the franchise goes to when it's time to reboot again. Some were hoping against hope that the Byrne-Jurgens version existing in the multiverse meant that it would become the dominant version of Superman again, and that was never, ever going to happen. What you could do, I suppose, is an anthology book where creators pick and choose which versions of Superman they want to use for their stories and use that to spotlight the various incarnations of the past. Otherwise, the only way to go is forward.

    Agreed on all counts. He's the man of tomorrow for a reason, right?

  3. #33
    Universal Turing machine cgh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Krypton View Post
    I really don't see them going back the old on any permanent basis. The DCU didn't reset to the Silver/Bronze Age version following Infinite Crisis, and I remember vividly some fans demanding the Superman franchise do exactly that at least as far back as 1999. Nor did the Superman franchise default back to the Byrne-Jurgens era following Infinite Crisis, and I wish I could forget the insane screaming and crying from fans of that era who just could not abide seeing it retired, let alone replaced by Birthright and Secret Origin. Whenever any iteration of Superman comes to an end, it's replaced with a new one, not an old one dusted off. When it comes time for the DC-Nu to end, we'll have another new version of Superman coming in.

    I guess you could have the old timeline exist in the multiverse, but even then it's not going to be the version the franchise goes to when it's time to reboot again. Some were hoping against hope that the Byrne-Jurgens version existing in the multiverse meant that it would become the dominant version of Superman again, and that was never, ever going to happen. What you could do, I suppose, is an anthology book where creators pick and choose which versions of Superman they want to use for their stories and use that to spotlight the various incarnations of the past. Otherwise, the only way to go is forward.
    Exactly, and what's more it's the same with all characters who get an update or reboot. Essentially, for most fans "classic" means "what I liked when I was 11 years old", and they associate that sense of wonder with the character as he or she was then. Any deviation is wrong and even "a lie".

    Superman embodies the same stuff in all his incarnations, so really worrying about the suit can get a bit nitpicky (I am guilty of this too). Although I do draw the line at the mullet.
    “Wonder Woman is a lame superhero...She flies around in her invisible jet and her weaponry is a lasso that makes you tell the truth. I just don’t get it.” -- Megan Fox

  4. #34
    Paladin Kurosawa's Avatar
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    I don't want the Superman I grew up with back or any of the characters I grew up with back, because there's no one active in comics today that could write those sorts of characters and stories, or draw them for that matter. I'd rather they be left to the past with the creators who made them great. There's no Swans or Maggins in today's comics; my Superman is gone and will never return. And that goes for all other characters I grew up loving. Superhero comics will never be what they were and only exist as movie pitches. It's a dead art form.
    Doomed Planet. Desperate Scientists. Last Hope. Kindly Couple.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurosawa View Post
    I don't want the Superman I grew up with back or any of the characters I grew up with back, because there's no one active in comics today that could write those sorts of characters and stories, or draw them for that matter. I'd rather they be left to the past with the creators who made them great. There's no Swans or Maggins in today's comics; my Superman is gone and will never return. And that goes for all other characters I grew up loving. Superhero comics will never be what they were and only exist as movie pitches. It's a dead art form.
    But I thought you liked Grant's Action comics? Besides, Nothing about Scott Lobdell's Superman comes off as a movie pitch by any means. For God's sake the man had Superman lift the weight of the earth for 5 days then fight a monster the size of a city then get hit from the east coast to Ireland all in one issue!! No Hollywood director would ever touch such a thing.

    Please could you tell me what has gone so wrong in the Superman books to have you think this way?? You're usually one of my favorite posters on here even though I disagree with you at times you still keep an open mind from what I've read.

    Aside from the movie changes (please don't bring these up I don't like arguing this) what did the Superman books do?

  6. #36
    It's Lexrules... GET HIM. Lexrules's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurosawa View Post
    I don't want the Superman I grew up with back or any of the characters I grew up with back, because there's no one active in comics today that could write those sorts of characters and stories, or draw them for that matter. I'd rather they be left to the past with the creators who made them great. There's no Swans or Maggins in today's comics; my Superman is gone and will never return. And that goes for all other characters I grew up loving. Superhero comics will never be what they were and only exist as movie pitches. It's a dead art form.
    You're 100% correct and something I personally need to try to grasp myself. All the truly great comic writers are either dead or no longer acceptable to today's audience. I guess you truly can't go home anymore.

  7. #37
    It's Lexrules... GET HIM. Lexrules's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    But I thought you liked Grant's Action comics? Besides, Nothing about Scott Lobdell's Superman comes off as a movie pitch by any means. For God's sake the man had Superman lift the weight of the earth for 5 days then fight a monster the size of a city then get hit from the east coast to Ireland all in one issue!! No Hollywood director would ever touch such a thing.

    Please could you tell me what has gone so wrong in the Superman books to have you think this way?? You're usually one of my favorite posters on here even though I disagree with you at times you still keep an open mind from what I've read.

    Aside from the movie changes (please don't bring these up I don't like arguing this) what did the Superman books do?
    Because it is simply not the same Superlad. Yes it is Superman and he does what Superman is suppose to do but it is still different. The feel, the wonderment, the look, all are different. Yes, it's still Superman but then again it is not.

    That is my feeling.

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by stk View Post
    I'm pretty sure not.

    I wouldn't mind, but I seriously doubt it. I also wouldn't mind for him to go back permanently to t-shirt and jeans with cape.
    I didn't mind the jeans and t-shirt look as his proto-suit before he got the armor, but I wouldn't want him to stay in that. I honestly don't see what's so preferable about it to the armor. The way people talk you'd think Superman actually started out in a t-shirt and jeans and that they're getting back to his roots, rather than it simply being what he first wore in current canon.
    People who chime in on vs. threads with "I don't like Superman at all, but he'd win.", STOP HELPING! Superman doesn't need your damning him with faint praise, thank you.

  9. #39
    New Member superman19492002's Avatar
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    Several times using reboots or whatever they have tried to rewrite Superman. A lot of the time it was to reduce him in power so it was easier to write for him. Once they completely changed him outfit powers and all. But eventually he always seems to come back to the same basic character and power level we all know and love. Any significant improvements made in a particular cycle just get added to his canon. So I suggest we play the waiting game and see what develops down the road. Let the new guys try and put their mark on him and get it out of their collective systems. Any decent artistic team always tries to put their mark on what they are working on. Who knows he may go to take a shower and find Lois in there like Pam found Bobby in that infamous episode of Dallas, and find that all this was just a bad dream.

    Superman19492002

  10. #40
    Senior Member Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexrules View Post
    Because it is simply not the same Superlad. Yes it is Superman and he does what Superman is suppose to do but it is still different. The feel, the wonderment, the look, all are different. Yes, it's still Superman but then again it is not.

    That is my feeling.
    I don't really know what that means. I read those same silver age stories too and yes there's a different feel with these but nothing to say that comics are dead over. I look at it more as a neo silver age than anything else.

    The last issue of Superboy really highlighted this for me (even if it wasn't very good as an issue imo). Superman and Superboy get sucked into a maze of changing planes of reality and they must get out. This whole thing could have been a whole arc or what ever but even within the actually story it took about 3 mins.....Superman shakes it off and goes on. It was very silver age but with a modern twist.


    Is it new exploration into otherwise never thought of facets of Superman's character that scare you guys (Clark quitting)? Is it exploring the notion that not everyone could actually love a man-god from space after just 5 years? Is it having Superman and is his family needing time to realistically bond instead of just magically being just fine with one another?

    Or is it just new direction that bothers you guys? I mean in the sliver age Superman didn't really see himself as Clark or a human and he wasn't in love with just Lois. Also in many ways he toyed with peoples lives, he'd have full control of the situation yes, but he was still toying with peoples lives and playing odd pranks on people all the time. No back in the day they really just dressed that up with "wonderment" but that's still what happened.

    Now when the modern comics do it but they make you really look at it in the face at times, you don't like it at all.


    Kurosawa liked Grant's Action comics and that pretty much did what I described above: taking the sliver age and bringing it into the modern for you to really see it. Like when Superman just let Clark "die". That was very sliver age, and how he came back was too but the conversation with Mrs. N before hand was very much an open playful jab at the sliver age. Mrs. N highlighted the emotional damage that he may have done to his friends......needless to say Clark was dumbfounded.

    Lobdell only builds on this type of thing with what I've seen so far.


    The sliver age is still here it's just actually being seen now. I'm just wandering if you're just afraid of some of the more uncomfortable aspects of it being explored.

  11. #41
    Senior Member shingi70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexrules View Post
    Well this is suppose to be the same Superman just with a alternate time line. So in fact it IS the same Superman. I feel down the line this Superman will find out about the events that lead to this timeline happening and may try to figure out a way to correct it. Then and only then will we possibly see the classic suit back and some remembrance of the old universe restored..

    But as the future of comic book readers (I'm 20 and started with the new52) I don't give a fuck about what was in the old universe and Ideally don't care about the old suit.
    Dc: Action Comics/Animal Man/Swamp Thing/Earth-2/Green Arrow/Batman/Threshold/Batwoman/Justice League/Green Lantern/Teen Titans/Superman/Justice League Dark/I,Vampire.

  12. #42
    Senior Member new_onslaught's Avatar
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    No matter how they change the suit in the future I doubt the trunks will ever be back. No A-list character has them nowadays in any company. See Wolverine. Since he lost the trunks, his suit went (and keeps going) through a lot of tweaks, but the trunks never returned and it keeps major elements from the 90's Lee suit, which had elements from the brown/orange suit.

  13. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by stk View Post
    I wouldn't mind, but I seriously doubt it. I also wouldn't mind for him to go back permanently to t-shirt and jeans with cape.
    Honestly like this look as well
    "It is wrong to assume that art needs the spectator in order to be. The film runs on without any eyes. The spectator cannot exist without it. It ensures his existence." -- James Douglas Morrison

  14. #44
    New Member superman19492002's Avatar
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    Well if they don’t change it back eventually Some folks in Metropolis that made a 15 foot high statue trunks and all are gonna be really ticked off. BTW I’ve also added a live tiny chat room to my superman group1 site. http://supermangroup1.jdk.dtdns.net/ its link is http://tinychat.com/supermangroup1 . Feel free to use it for live chats whenever you get the urge.

    Superman19492002

  15. #45
    Certified Mar-Vell Zombie Comet Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexrules View Post
    No , I only buy things that will actually be remembered in 20 years and not stories and suits done by blow job hacks.
    Dude, he'll still be wearing the new 52 suit in 20 years, and you'll be wearing a bib.
    I seriously miss Captain Mar-Vell.

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