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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    It may be an obsolete version, but was there anything wrong with being slightly old-fashioned?
    Yes. Superman reflects the world around him and has been designed and redesigned to fit the times. He shouldn't be perceived as a relic.

    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    And I'm more attached to my $'s and won't waste them on the unenjoyable crap that DC is trying to push as "Superman".
    But you had no problem doing so before Flashpoint?

  2. #32
    Elder Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneNecromancer View Post
    But you had no problem doing so before Flashpoint?
    I had problems prior to Flashpoint as well . . . only bought a few issues from New Krypton/World Without Superman/World Against Superman/Last Stand of New Krypton as well as Grounded. (Prior to those, I had given up on comic books in 1995.)
    Congress shall make no law . . . abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

  3. #33
    Petite Canaille OldSchoolfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandmountainslim View Post
    Im down with it. I am one of the one enjoying H'el on Earth instead of nitpicking. Go read the Electric Superman era crap then tell me this is bad.
    I did read it, twice, and enjoyed it both times. This isn't bad.....needs some more polishing, but really I thought it was a fun read.
    If the shoe fits: "a crankly old man standing just on the edge of a crowd gathered for a concert and stamping his feet yelling at the crowd to stop having fun, that they don't know what fun is."

  4. #34
    Paladin Kurosawa's Avatar
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    A big part of what Superman should be about is that he is ahead of us physically and morally. That he sees things as true, as a matter of FACT that we see as opinion and cannot grasp as true. That is why "there is a right and a wrong in the universe, and that value judgement is not difficult to make" is the Kryptonian Way. To us, mercy, kindness, compassion, giving, are all choices and can be questioned. To us, greed is understandable. Superman does not grasp this. It's why he doesn't understand humanity and it's cruelties oftentimes. He doesn't think or perceive the world the way we do. He literally sees things that we cannot even imagine. But Superman believes in people, he believes in the kindness of others. He sees proof of humanity's better side in those he loves, in Lois' quest for the truth, in Batman's battle for justice. Even in Lex he can see the good, because he loves Lex too. Superman can inspire people, but he is often just as inspired by people as they are by him. And his vision of community, of taking care of one another, and of transcendence through altruistic pursuits is the biggest message of the character and is essential. When given a chance to write his own epitaph, he wrote "Do good to others and every man can be a superman". That is his philosophy and the message of Superman. And while we can't do everything he does, we can follow his lead. We can care, we can devote ourselves to other with the understanding that what is good for others is good for ourselves, and that all of our fates are intertwined. Humanity can't fly to the sun but it can do great acts of kindness...or horrible crimes of war. It is up to us.
    Doomed Planet. Desperate Scientists. Last Hope. Kindly Couple.

  5. #35
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    Yeah I agree with that. Thinking of Superman as a mythological figure (I'm not one of those people who thinks of superheroes as modern myths, but I think Superman in particular very much is a fabled representation of America at its finest), there's almost a spiritual dimension to the character. He's basically man evolved not just through technology but morally and spiritually.

  6. #36
    Senior Member darkseidpwns's Avatar
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    So is H'el basically an Eradicator/Superboy Prime ripoff?

  7. #37
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    He was supposed to be Bizzaro but the editors felt he was too different.

    I don't know; he's like a weird mix of Bizzaro and Zod.

  8. #38
    Inf‚me et fier de l'Ítre Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holmes View Post
    He was supposed to be Bizzaro but the editors felt he was too different.

    I don't know; he's like a weird mix of Bizzaro and Zod.

    And Broly. Overpowered being of the same specie than the hero, but much much more powerful, walking around with a bare chest? Definitively Broly.
    "I'm going to paraphrase Nietzsche, when you judge a work, the work judges you."

  9. #39
    Paladin Kurosawa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post
    And Broly. Overpowered being of the same specie than the hero, but much much more powerful, walking around with a bare chest? Definitively Broly.
    Yep. I like all of that, though.
    Doomed Planet. Desperate Scientists. Last Hope. Kindly Couple.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Coyote2010's Avatar
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    I think what I have loved about the DC Superman books right now is the ambition. I feel like they are trying to push the concept of Superman beyond just making him American identifiable. That is Superman, but not just Superman. High Concept Sci Fi starring the Man of Tomorrow. So much different than Clark Kent "is who he is, Superman is what he can do..." It's been done to death that theme these last 25 years.

    I haven't read the Superboy Supergirl chapters of He'l on Earth. Just the Superman stuff so I am still on board. I feel like like family wide crossovers dilute the punch of a story. How powerful could the story H'el on Earth been if it had just been a Superman three issue arc guest starring Supergirl and Superboy?

  11. #41
    Inf‚me et fier de l'Ítre Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurosawa View Post
    Yep. I like all of that, though.
    Well, as long as his vocabulary is more developped than simply yelling "KAAAAAAAALLLLLL EEEEELLLLLLL", I don't mind the similarities.
    "I'm going to paraphrase Nietzsche, when you judge a work, the work judges you."

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post
    And Broly. Overpowered being of the same specie than the hero, but much much more powerful, walking around with a bare chest? Definitively Broly.
    i see Doomsday as Broly, H'el is more Bojack, also extremly overpowered but intellegent, while broly and doomsday are just prue unleashed rage

  13. #43
    Inf‚me et fier de l'Ítre Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Movieartman View Post
    i see Doomsday as Broly, H'el is more Bojack, also extremly overpowered but intellegent, while broly and doomsday are just prue unleashed rage
    Psychologically, I'd tend to agree with you, but from a physical standpoint standpoint, H'El and Broly are very alike. I mean, they're pretty much dressed in the same fashion.
    And conceptually, they're both Kryptonian/Sayan just like the hero, but with a powerlevel noted as very unusual among their kind (Broly being the Legendary Super Sayan, while H'El.....has powers no Kryptonian ever manifested before).
    I always considered Doomsday to be somewhat similar to the final form of Buu. A beast unable to even speak, but who just won't die, no matter what you throw at it.
    "I'm going to paraphrase Nietzsche, when you judge a work, the work judges you."

  14. #44
    Senior Member manduck37's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holmes View Post
    Yeah I agree with that. Thinking of Superman as a mythological figure (I'm not one of those people who thinks of superheroes as modern myths, but I think Superman in particular very much is a fabled representation of America at its finest), there's almost a spiritual dimension to the character. He's basically man evolved not just through technology but morally and spiritually.
    This is pretty much my thinking as well. I've always seen superheroes as our culture's mythology. What you said here and earlier in this thread and what Kurosawa said in the above post is why I love Superman so much. It's why he's my favorite superhero. I guess that's why I'm not overly impressed with Lobdell's take on the character. He's choosing to focus on the "outsider" aspect and coming at it from a different angle than what Kurosawa was talking about. H'el isn't a bad idea, but I feel it's underdeveloped and coming from a perspective on Superman that doesn't really do it for me. We're too far into a crossover here to have so little of H'el be developed as a character. I'm just not into what Lobdell is doing with Superman. His Lex, however, seems quite interesting.

    To me, Superman is different because of that spiritual aspect to the mythos and character. So seeing this interview where Lobdell states his view on the character, it made me realize that his take isn't for me. If I was to read outsider angst I can read just about everything Marvel puts out. It just seemed to me like Lobdell just wasn't going to focus on the elements of Superman that make him unique among other superheroes and the elements that I particularly enjoy. So his H'el story just isn't doing it for me.

  15. #45
    Cavilling Metropolitan Self-DCeit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    I thought time-travel (other than one way) was a big no-no for the New 52?
    Yeah. Isn't that what the part of the Legion and most of the Legion Lost shebang is all about?

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