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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquacatlungfish View Post
    I reread the Lobdell issues of Superman and preferred them a second time round but I still think H'El is pretty poor. Song cool ideas but not enough to justify length and page count with H'El being too bland a villain too carry it all. This is a cool idea and I'm quite interested but I hate how Superboy is relevant to this line. The character and writer is really dragging the whole direction. If they want to do this it should be 3 months tops if it's a complete story divided into the four books. I can handle it being longer if it's not a full story divided up into the books because HoE is so decompressed.
    I'd agree with that, H'El as a character and the plot aren't working for me. I don't think it's bad, but it's not quite compelling either. I'm enjoying this mostly for the character work and the fun sci-fi aesthetics I've been waiting years to read in a Superman book.

    Won't Diggle's Action being delayed a month affect the timing of this crossover (it seems pretty likely that Morrison is writing 18)?
    It's not happening right after H'El on Earth, I don't think.

  2. #17
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    We project our inspirations onto Superman. He should only see the work he faces and what must be done, because that is all that matters.

    I didn't like Lobdell having Superman credit his 'midwestern roots' for his personality. I'm not sure what that even means. I can understand if he said "I was raised on a farm and had to work hard growing up". I don't understand what his regional location has to do with his viewpoints on crime and justice. I can list hundreds of other heroes not from the "midwest" who share the same values.

    I also don't like Lobdell just using that as a summary of his ideas, rather actually exploring them.

  3. #18
    Part-Time Sith Joe Acro's Avatar
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    I think if H'el continues much longer, especially with time travel, I'll have to drop Supergirl. It's unfortunate a crossover has gotten in the way of such strong momentum.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by manduck37 View Post
    "I know that a lot of people see Superman as this shining light on a hill, showing us how we can be the best of what we are and how humanity can rise to superhuman heights, but I always look at that as scant, because at the end of the day, Superman can do things that none of us can ever, ever do. And so this notion that Superman would see himself as an ideal, I don't see him that way. I see him as a person who lives on a planet not his own and trying to use his powers to do what's best for the rest of the people that live here."

    This is the quote from the article that made me think Lobdell doesn't see Superman as inspiring, but rather as a guys who just uses his powers. One of the ideas Morrison explored is that everyone can be Superman and Superman shows us the way. Lobdell seems to want to focus on the outsider aspect and sees Superman as a guy who wouldn't try to inspire us or show us a better way. He'd just use his powers to do stuff. It's two different approaches to the characer inspiring vs outsider. Though I have no real interest in reading about a Superman who just does stuff because he has powers. I prefer the Morrison approach, and many others before him, who treat Superman as a guy trying to build a better future by his example (which he eventually does).
    He hasn't said that Superman is a guy that WOULDN'T try to inspire us or show us a better way. I would think that Superman is someone who feels the weight of the world on his shoulders because he truly has great powers. But I don't think Superman would be so conceited to think that he is the ideal. I believe superman be both an outsider and an inspiring character, it doesn't have to be mutually exclusive. Morrison explored how Superman can be an outsider and has shown that in his action run. As far as being inspirational, he hasn't really shown us that. He did show us a guy who tried to do his best for the people and coupled it with huge scifi action. He did mention about the idea of a Superman in an alternate dimension but he never really showed that people viewed him as an ideal, other than Lois and Jimmy who are kinda his allies/sidekicks.
    Which goes back to the point that I don't think Superman would see himself as an ideal. I believe that he wants people to trust him and he has faith in mankind and humanity. I would see him as an inspirational figure, but I don't think he sees himself as that.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrSimonHurt View Post
    We project our inspirations onto Superman. He should only see the work he faces and what must be done, because that is all that matters.

    I didn't like Lobdell having Superman credit his 'midwestern roots' for his personality. I'm not sure what that even means. I can understand if he said "I was raised on a farm and had to work hard growing up". I don't understand what his regional location has to do with his viewpoints on crime and justice. I can list hundreds of other heroes not from the "midwest" who share the same values.

    I also don't like Lobdell just using that as a summary of his ideas, rather actually exploring them.
    I think Superman did adapt some values from his midwestern roots and his upbrining from pa and ma kent.
    I don't think that growing up with a midwestern root is the only way to get these sort of values or that one would even adapt these values just by growing up there. But I don't see anything wrong by crediting pa and ma kent and growing up on a farm in kansas when it comes down to the values that superman sticks to.

  5. #20

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    So far I have liked Lobdell's writing, but I don't particularly care for events that span three or more books. If Scott is going to make this a running trend, I'm out.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holmes View Post
    I'd agree with that, H'El as a character and the plot aren't working for me. I don't think it's bad, but it's not quite compelling either. I'm enjoying this mostly for the character work and the fun sci-fi aesthetics I've been waiting years to read in a Superman book.
    I can't help but feel that the whole thing would be better if it was just an arc of Superman, not a crossover where you have to read Superboy (why is DeFalco still getting payed?). The books are far too compressed. I do love the tone of Lobdell's Superman, I can't believe it took this long for someone to get the tone right on a monthly after All Star Superman (Morrison's Action excluded of course). Honestly I can't wait for Lobdell to do his own thing after the crossover.

    It's not happening right after H'El on Earth, I don't think.
    Yeah but Diggle said he has a 3 issue arc about the rise of Lex planned. I'm assuming the crossover happens after that which means Action would come into that a month late. They could double ship it but DC hates that (and I love them for that).

  7. #22
    Elder Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Acro View Post
    I think if H'el continues much longer, especially with time travel, I'll have to drop Supergirl. It's unfortunate a crossover has gotten in the way of such strong momentum.
    Yeah, I dropped Supergirl starting with issue #14 because of the crossover . . . I dropped Superman after Lobdell came on board, and don't buy Superboy, so having her seem like she would be so actively involved in all those other issues (and having them impact her solo book) just told me it was time to move on.
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by scribbleMind View Post
    So far I have liked Lobdell's writing, but I don't particularly care for events that span three or more books. If Scott is going to make this a running trend, I'm out.
    This is all editorial. Matt Idelson was talking about how they planned a crossover and this was months before Lobdell became the writer of Superman. Not to mention the way they forced Culling.

    As much as I have enjoyed what Lobdell is doing, he's kind of the editorial agent, and it's been that way since he wrote X-Men with Bob Harras breathing down his neck. That's the difference between him and Johns, Lemire, Snyder, Azzarello, Morrison, etc.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandmountainslim View Post
    Im down with it. I am one of the one enjoying H'el on Earth instead of nitpicking. Go read the Electric Superman era crap then tell me this is bad.
    LMAO! Agreed.

    People are just overly attached to an obsolete version. Truth Justice and the American way arent realistic anymore. What superman is now is probably about the best that the concept can be fit into our post-democracy world ruled by big corporations,nanny governments and constant revolutions in every corner of the world.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kymeric View Post
    LMAO! Agreed.

    People are just overly attached to an obsolete version. Truth Justice and the American way arent realistic anymore. What superman is now is probably about the best that the concept can be fit into our post-democracy world ruled by big corporations,nanny governments and constant revolutions in every corner of the world.
    So far in the New52, Superman has only mentioned "Truth, Justice, and the American way" during the H'el storyline (I could be wrong as I haven't read a lot of the Superman issues, but the phrase was in Lobdel's first issue) and instead of being inspiring, the line was completely cringe worthy. Also, Superman has never been realistic.

    As far as having Action cross over into the H'el storyline, I hope that Diggle doesn't introduce anything that would tie into his run as a whole because I'm looking forward to his take but I doubt I'll be picking up anything else to do with this story.

  11. #26
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    I like how when anyone uses the word realistic, it leads to people trying to make the term literal and over-encompassing into every aspect of the word. There's a difference between social/thematic realism, realism in the relatable sense, and literal, physical realism. But no when ever anyone mentions the word it has to be everything, even the last part. Every time.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holmes View Post
    I like how when anyone uses the word realistic, it leads to people trying to make the term literal and over-encompassing into every aspect of the word. There's a difference between social/thematic realism, realism in the relatable sense, and literal, physical realism. But no when ever anyone mentions the word it has to be everything, even the last part. Every time.
    I'm assuming that you're referring to my point that Superman has never been realistic as a response to Kymeric's point. I wasn't saying that Superman has never been literally realistic and I wasn't assuming that Kymeric was using it in that way either. I was using realistic in terms of the relatable sense. To me, Superman has always been a paragon and not a real representation of a man but a Super-man. I do think that him using "Truth, Justice, and the American way" was unrealistic in the relatable sense but I don't see that as a negative for this reason.

  13. #28
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    Fair enough; but still, Truth, Justice, and the American way is just a reflection of the jingoism at the time, nothing paragon about it.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kymeric View Post
    People are just overly attached to an obsolete version. Truth Justice and the American way arent realistic anymore. What superman is now is probably about the best that the concept can be fit into our post-democracy world ruled by big corporations,nanny governments and constant revolutions in every corner of the world.
    It may be an obsolete version, but was there anything wrong with being slightly old-fashioned?

    And I'm more attached to my $'s and won't waste them on the unenjoyable crap that DC is trying to push as "Superman".
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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    It may be an obsolete version, but was there anything wrong with being slightly old-fashioned?

    And I'm more attached to my $'s and won't waste them on the unenjoyable crap that DC is trying to push as "Superman".
    But I will, and never did before, so everything is balanced.

    Morrison and Lobdell are the 2 greatest things to happen to Superman since his birth in 1938. I'm sorry to see Morrison leave Superman, but I'm also excited to see what happens afterwards. This is coming from somebody who dropped Superman for a couple of issues because of Morrison's style, but came back and wishes he wouldn't leave.
    I seriously miss Captain Mar-Vell.

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