View Poll Results: Federation=Moneyless Utopia?

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  • Yes it should be a moneyless utopia

    6 42.86%
  • It should embrace capitalism fully just keep some minimal bureucracy and Starfleet also use money

    2 14.29%
  • Strong social safety net+ some sort of currency, basically a Social demoratic state

    5 35.71%
  • Capitalist and socialist member states that contribute manpower to Starfleet

    1 7.14%
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  1. #31
    Long Live the Legion Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    Maybe everything is based on actual products and services in the Trek verse. I mean maybe they have gotten away from jobs were the main goal was to push around papers and numbers and make money without actually providing a real tangible service like bankers or stockbrokers.

  2. #32
    Veteran Member Simbob4000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    Maybe everything is based on actual products and services in the Trek verse. I mean maybe they have gotten away from jobs were the main goal was to push around papers and numbers and make money without actually providing a real tangible service like bankers or stockbrokers.
    You mean a bartering system?

  3. #33
    Elder Member dupersuper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Choblik View Post
    Because it would appeal to more people. This whole capialism nearly destroyed our civilisation and preachiness sounds silly. Because it never happened. If it might hapen according to you go knock yourself out i don't care but for most/half of the people it will sound still silly.
    Yes, because capitalism has proven so reliable...
    Bays Transformer appeals to more people: I expect a little more from Star Trek.

    Quote Originally Posted by Choblik View Post
    I still enjoy it, i just don't like to suspend too much disbelief.
    So, the almost completely human looking aliens, the soft science, the magically safe "stun" weapons, the slightly telepathic universal translator that allows every one to communicate so well aliens who don't know you have it don't even realize you're not speaking their language...these you have no problems with?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Pothier View Post
    Its not something explicitly stated, and looking at my words, i believe I used wrong terms. I didn't quite mean "expense", implying the Federation took advantage of other civilizations. But they are clearly reliant on them. They have trading contracts with other civilizations, which means there are goods that even the Federation cannot produce in their scarcity-free society. So men and women become traders, and make a living flying those goods back and forth. I can't imagine they do this solely for the betterment of mankind. They must get some form of compensation.
    If you're talking Cassidy Yates, I'm unsure if she is doing that to serve the Federation or if she has a Starfleet-like wanderlust but wants to be her own boss. While of course the Federation itself has trading agreements with others, I wouldn't say they're reliant so much as interdependent. I imagine they're intentionally so, as trade is a great way to promote peace and cultural exchange.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyke View Post
    One's mileage may vary I guess, again depending on one's definition, but I watched Star Trek II recently, and when the Genesis R&D team think that Kirk wants them to hand the project over to Reliant, David Marcus outright called Starfleet the military.
    Yes, but he uses protomatter and ties his sweater around his shoulders. You can't go by him.
    Last edited by dupersuper; 01-25-2013 at 07:29 PM.
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  4. #34
    Elder Member Jared's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    I think it started earlier than First Contact, I'm pretty sure Kirk said they didn't use money where he came from in the Voyage Home.

    I never understood how it worked either, but it never really bothered me.
    That only makes sense if Kirk meant they didn't use the 20th century's idea of money. Because McCoy was talking about money in the previous movie, which was only a few months before, chronologically.
    I also remember Kirk telling Scotty "you've earned your pay for the week" after he'd saved the ship for the umpteenth time in some episode.
    Last edited by Jared; 01-28-2013 at 03:48 PM.
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  5. #35
    Ruby Quartz Club Band Cyke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dupersuper View Post
    Yes, but he uses protomatter and ties his sweater around his shoulders. You can't go by him.
    The sweater was more damning, I think.
    “What I think the political correctness debate is really about is the power to be able to define. The definers want the power to name. And the defined are now taking that power away from them.”

  6. #36
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    dupersuper posts:

    Yes, because capitalism has proven so reliable...
    Bays Transformer appeals to more people: I expect a little more from Star Trek.
    I don't think Guru my favorite pro-capitalist movie appeals to that many people. I don't see the conection. I don't Trek should pro-capitalist considering the political climate and the fact that if he picks a side half of the US populace will dislike that aspect of Trek. Apparently capitalism is more reliable than state socialism which Picard was preaching.

    So, the almost completely human looking aliens, the soft science, the magically safe "stun" weapons, the slightly telepathic universal translator that allows every one to communicate so well aliens who don't know you have it don't even realize you're not speaking their language...these you have no problems with?
    They are not as inconsitent as let's say transporters. Why do they put commando teams onto enemy ships? They can just beam a bomb to the right place and be done with it.
    Last edited by Shikidum; 01-26-2013 at 01:02 AM.

  7. #37
    Veteran Member Simbob4000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jared View Post
    That only makes sense if Kirk meant they didn't use the 20th century's idea of money. Because McCoy was talking about money in the previous movie, which was only a few months before, chronologically.
    I also remember Kirk telling Scotty "you've earned your pay for the week" after he'd saved the ship for the umpteenth time.
    They had money in TOS, they didn't in TNG; they also don't have alcohol anymore either.

  8. #38
    Bishop was right. Sighphi's Avatar
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    Dudes, within the Federation there is no need for cash but outside of the Federation cash is still used and not everyone is in the Federation. DS9 was over a Bajoran planet who, i am probably wrong, was just applying to the Federation? So there was still cash used.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Coal Tiger's Avatar
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    Weren't the Ferengi into gold pressed latinum? Their culture was obsessed with the stuff. Replicator technology made gold worthless, but this liquid latinum stuff was impossible to replicate so it had incredible value to cultures who still valued making a profit.

  10. #40
    Veteran Member Simbob4000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sighphi View Post
    Dudes, within the Federation there is no need for cash but outside of the Federation cash is still used and not everyone is in the Federation. DS9 was over a Bajoran planet who, i am probably wrong, was just applying to the Federation? So there was still cash used.
    Yeah, there's no need for cash...because the Federation is a communist society, and they've done away it it. And while Earth seems like a nice places from what we see of it, places like Denise Crosby's characters homeworld sounds like the worst places ever.

  11. #41
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simbob4000 View Post
    Yeah, there's no need for cash...because the Federation is a communist society, and they've done away it it. And while Earth seems like a nice places from what we see of it, places like Denise Crosby's characters homeworld sounds like the worst places ever.
    Yeah, but Tasha's homeplanet wasn't part of the Federation.
    'The marquis. Well, you know, to be honest, he seems a little bit dodgy to me.'
    'Mm,' she agreed. 'He's a little bit dodgy in the same way that rats are a little bit covered in fur."

  13. #43
    FF purist-snob
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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    I think it started earlier than First Contact, I'm pretty sure Kirk said they didn't use money where he came from in the Voyage Home.

    I never understood how it worked either, but it never really bothered me.
    Kirk also said in Generations he had sold his house. If we're talking about the "Abramsverse", obviously the TOS timeframe is the important one. Picard's talking about money in First Contact seems like the writers really had no idea how such a system could work. Or at least nothing they could explain in short enough a time on screen.

    Anyway, specifically about nuTrek, doesn't Kirk offer to buy drinks for Uhura in the bar? That sounds like they would have some kind of currency. I'm guessing that unlike the Klingon and Vulcan languages, no one has really created an economic system for Trek.
    "Cant say it better than CaptCleghorn." - RolandJP

  14. #44
    Veteran Member Simbob4000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carabas View Post
    Yeah, but Tasha's homeplanet wasn't part of the Federation.
    It was part of the Federation, it stopped being after the whole colony went to shit.

  15. #45
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    I would love to k now why. I don't know if rape gangs are disturbing or ridiculous. Tasha tryed to hide a cat from them. Man those gangstas must be horny.

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