Winter Soldier #14 *Spoilers*

[rogerio]

Liu's Name of the Rose story was one of the best things I've ever read in comics. I'd kill to have her write a BW ongoing!

and dont forget Daniel Acuna on the artwork.


My favorite BW story ever...

[Hrist]

They tried that. Marvel fans aren't really up for an espionage book that is played straight which is what Liu's Black Widow mostly was.

I don't really see her automatically hooking up with Clint either. She is just going to go back to the solo act/Mata Hari gig that she was known for before Bucky.

I think it's funny you would say that in a thread for Winter Soldier, which is much more straight-up espionage than the Liu book was. I think, actually, that book was never going to be a best seller, but it was promoted all wrong, and that Natasha's visibility has gone way up since the Avengers movie, which handled her much more thoughtfully since IM2. You'd have to go to Hawkeye lengths to promote the character/book and get a great creative team, but I think she deserves another shot the same way Clint does.

She could show up in Fearless Defenders. I wonder if she could be

Really my only main issue (Aside from the above) with this isn't he still with Spider Woman?

I am sure she'll appear in Fearless Defenders. Cullen Bunn says p. much every female character will cameo, and he's written quite a lot of Black Widow. But I doubt she's going to be on the team, it seems like she's too big a name for the vibe they've got going so far.

Yeah, he and Jessica are still involved, at least, until the Valentines issue of Hawkeye.

Pandering to shippers?

Then Steve and Tony would be making out and sobbing constantly. I mean, I'm not saying it's going to happen, but Clint is with someone else and doing his own thing over in Fraction's book.

A lot of the movie fans assumed the two as romantically linked. Not sure what exactly implied this to be honest. I personally thought they had pathetic on screen chemistry. Although Marvel's a sucker for anything that might potentially earn them a buck, so playing up that relationship to grab some dough wouldn't surprise me in the least. In the age of Marcus Johnson, I think very few things would

I wish she did have her own book, or at least a team based one where she's a major player. One that lasts at least. When she did have her own book though, Bucky played the supporting role. I think that's a given with any character in a relationship.

The Natasha/Clint partnership in the movies seems to me based of the Ultimates version of the characters, sans betrayal. They aren't romantic in that universe, either. I have a hard time buying into some editorial conspiracy against the Bucky/Natasha ship, especially since that might get addressed in the films, too.

I don't think, necessarily, that all the relationships Natasha has had always devalued herr. That would be a p. narrow view of it. Through most of this one, Natasha's main appearances were in other books: her own minis, her ongoing, Avengers, Thunderbolts. But those meaningful appearances elsewhere kind of died around the time Winter Soldier launched, paradoxically b/c of her strong appearance in the movieverse you all think comics revolve around. (And I actually think the existence of the WS book is a big factor in why she doesn't have her own book. I think it's silly, but I'd bet they don't want to run two Russian spy books at once.) These two arcs have been a disaster, as far as Natasha is concerned, she was brainwashed and creeped on and allowed no measure of revenge or reaction. She was the one who suffered, but the story only really told us about Bucky and Leo and their motivations and emotional reactions, not hers. And she's being written out of the book instead of having those reactions explored/continued.

That kind of thing never happened to Bucky any of Natasha's books. In fact, I'd go far enough to say that I don't think the sexual element at play here, with Leo trying also to get in her pants, would ever happen to a guy character. I'm a fan of the Bucky/Natasha thing but I didn't like these last two arcs, they didn't do much for Natasha at all. But I think that was made worse than it would have been if she did have her own book, or some place else that her storylines were really being handled.

[Godlike13]

So I'm afraid I'm dropping this book.

I love Winter Soldier, and I loved Bucky and Natasha's relationship, and I'm seriously annoyed that they've just wiped it out because of some dumbass editorial decision that Natasha needs to be away from him. I agree the likelihood is that she'll hook up with Hawkeye, which will make Hawkeye look like a humongous douchebag because he knows why Natasha is no longer with Bucky.

This whole arc has been pretty tedious, to be honest. Not the sort of quality I'd expect from Brubaker, and I think he's left the book in a sorry state for the incoming writer. And I think Natasha, particularly, has been treated terribly by Brubaker. A woman without agency, left to thrive or suffer at the whims of the men in her life (or not in her life) who know better and can make decisions on her behalf. It's the perfect example of how so many comic book women have been written so badly in the past, and honestly not something I thought Brubaker would stoop to. Especially not after he wrote Natasha so well in Captain America, and in the first few issues of this book.

Hate it when Marvel do this, though. Just screw up something good out of some misguided, foolish notion that new people will read the comics and be freaked out when comic book continuity doesn't match the movies, or the cartoons.

Down to one book, now. Gambit. And I get the feeling that won't last much longer.

I really don't think Marvel made him do this. From the start Bru has always wrote Bucky as a tragic hero. Bucky is always gonna be someone that suffers through hardship, he's the Winter Soldier.

[Wellman]

Sad to see Brubaker go, but in a way I guess it is to greener pastures and hopefully he will come back down the line.

Not a fan of this arc either, the writing has been on the wall for a while with Marvel wanting to ape the positively received aspects of the movie and with Bucky's main champion leaving...

[Prince Of Orphans]

So I'm afraid I'm dropping this book.

I've considered dropping this book as well, but I just can't. I feel if there's too steep a reader drop after Bru leaves, we may not get another Winter Soldier book for a very, very long time. Besides, maybe Latour will surprise us?

[rogerio]

I've considered dropping this book as well, but I just can't. I feel if there's too steep a reader drop after Bru leaves, we may not get another Winter Soldier book for a very, very long time. Besides, maybe Latour will surprise us?

I hope so.
Latour's ideas are very interesting and Klein artwork is stunning.

[Abdulabulbul_Amir]

Then Steve and Tony would be making out and sobbing constantly.

Well, yeah. But they're canonically straight men and are of too high profile so it would be too controversial.

I mean, I'm not saying it's going to happen, but Clint is with someone else and doing his own thing over in Fraction's book.

Regardless of anything pertaining to Natasha, I easily see that just being dropped. With Bendis off Avengers books, there isn't anyone to champion the relationship as much. Also, Jessica hasn't really been really a part of Hawkeye's book. And Clint has been seen getting into a one-night stand with someone else, in fact.

Myself, I'm not saying it will happen. Just that I would not at all be surprised if it did.

[Abdulabulbul_Amir]

I've considered dropping this book as well, but I just can't. I feel if there's too steep a reader drop after Bru leaves, we may not get another Winter Soldier book for a very, very long time. Besides, maybe Latour will surprise us?

Yeah. Unless this book is extremely racist under Latour, I won't it drop it either, at least for the first two arcs.

[lilyinblue]

Regardless of anything pertaining to Natasha, I easily see that just being dropped. With Bendis off Avengers books, there isn't anyone to champion the relationship as much. Also, Jessica hasn't really been really a part of Hawkeye's book. And has been seen getting into a one-night stand with someone else, in fact.

Jess will be in the February issue of Hawkeye, though. (Along with Natasha and Bobbi.) As to whether or not they'll still be together after that issue... anyone's guess.

[Robodojo]

If you like Bucky and enjoy reading stories with him in them, why would anyone drop the book now? Bucky's only a good character if Brubaker writes him?

For all we know, Latour could be the next Rick Remender. He may have a killer story worked out for Buck. And we've already seen that Nic Klein's Winter Soldier art looks very promising.

Are there so many great books out there that Bucky fans wouldn't want to give the new creative team a shot to win them over?

[Godlike13]

Well, yeah. But they're canonically straight men and are of too high profile so it would be too controversial.



Regardless of anything pertaining to Natasha, I easily see that just being dropped. With Bendis off Avengers books, there isn't anyone to champion the relationship as much. Also, Jessica hasn't really been really a part of Hawkeye's book. And has been seen getting into a one-night stand with someone else, in fact.

Myself, I'm not saying it will happen. Just that I would not at all be surprised if it did.

Really, where? I need details.

[Abdulabulbul_Amir]

Really, where? I need details.

Hawkeye #3. He nips out to get some tape, he ends up having sex with a girl named Cherry.

[Godlike13]

Hawkeye #3. He nips out to get some tape, he ends up having sex with a girl named Cherry.

Oh, i thought u meant Jessica.

[samson3191]

If you like Bucky and enjoy reading stories with him in them, why would anyone drop the book now? Bucky's only a good character if Brubaker writes him?

For all we know, Latour could be the next Rick Remender. He may have a killer story worked out for Buck. And we've already seen that Nic Klein's Winter Soldier art looks very promising.

Are there so many great books out there that Bucky fans wouldn't want to give the new creative team a shot to win them over?

Exactly. Just because things don't pan out exactly how you want doesn't mean you should stop reading about characters you like. If everything went exactly how you wanted, comics would be boring.

[TonyStark1012]

If you like Bucky and enjoy reading stories with him in them, why would anyone drop the book now? Bucky's only a good character if Brubaker writes him?

For all we know, Latour could be the next Rick Remender. He may have a killer story worked out for Buck. And we've already seen that Nic Klein's Winter Soldier art looks very promising.

Are there so many great books out there that Bucky fans wouldn't want to give the new creative team a shot to win them over?

Well said. I was about to same the same thing. Give the new team a chance. Bucky is one of my all time favorite characters thanks to Brubaker, but that doesn't mean I only like the character when Bru's writing him. I'm rolling with Bucky until the wheels fall off.