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  1. #31
    Senior Member AJBopp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dupersuper View Post
    Their evolution into corpses?
    of other species.
    In my opinion is implied in every post. Please make an effort to remember that.

  2. #32
    Senior Member AJBopp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Choblik View Post
    Bopp

    And what if that new species is utterly evil?
    Then we should be fine with wiping out already-existing species we think are utterly evil? Pretty much makes us utterly evil.

    Quote Originally Posted by Choblik View Post
    Yeah, i would save a lot of people.
    And ultimately expand the population by millions or billions with consequences that cannot be foreseen. It could destroy the planet in just a few centuries with a new virus that had never been seen before, or a new dictator that we would someone should go back in time to assassinate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Choblik View Post
    Somebody like Napolean would had emerged anyway. There was no point of killing him, the evolution from monarchy into the hands of demagogic dictators was natural. The French Revolution was a disaster, somebody like himwa expected. Hitler? Somebody else likes him could had taken power. No point.
    We wouldn't be honor-bound to kill them too? Interesting...


    Quote Originally Posted by Choblik View Post
    They are not sentient so let them die.
    Aha...so only sentient life counts. The prospects of evolution don't matter, only the immediate, what's in front of me situation matters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Choblik View Post
    I fail to see how letting thos creatures die when you claim to be a humanitarian stat is justifiable.
    Earl
    Because we don't know what the future holds, but we have the potential to "unnaturally affect the future of other races and species in Star Trek world. Entire populations die out all the time and are replaced with something else. It may be better or worse, but it is not for us to decide. That's the point.
    [/QUOTE]
    In my opinion is implied in every post. Please make an effort to remember that.

  3. #33
    Non-fanboy C. Earl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Choblik View Post
    Earl
    Could you give me some examples?
    "The Omega Glory," "Patterns of Force," "Bread & Circuses"
    Always remember this stuff isn't real.

  4. #34
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    Bopp:
    Then we should be fine with wiping out already-existing species we think are utterly evil? Pretty much makes us utterly evil.


    And ultimately expand the population by millions or billions with consequences that cannot be foreseen. It could destroy the planet in just a few centuries with a new virus that had never been seen before, or a new dictator that we would someone should go back in time to assassinate.
    I dooubt that that in the grand scheme of things saving the population of Pompeii would have much consequences besides allowing those people to live some more.

    We wouldn't be honor-bound to kill them too? Interesting...
    How do you know that would happen? For all i know in that reallity Hitler would get back the Ruhr industrial zone and die before he would invade Cheslovakia and everybody would be happy.

    Aha...so only sentient life counts. The prospects of evolution don't matter, only the immediate, what's in front of me situation matters.
    Should i been ever arrested for killing a fly? No.

    Because we don't know what the future holds, but we have the potential to "unnaturally affect the future of other races and species in Star Trek world.
    It's not like Starfleet is going enslave the newly discovered people. What do you mean ''unnaturaly effect''?

    Earl now i get it, in all 3 cases the civilisation was already ''contanimated''.

  5. #35
    Non-fanboy C. Earl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Choblik View Post
    Earl now i get it, in all 3 cases the civilisation was already ''contanimated''.
    Yep, and Kirk was acting under Starfleet regulations either to fix the damage, set the civilization back on the right track, and arrest the person responsible, if possible.

    But by the time of VOY, Kirk was all but retconned as history's number one violator of the Prime Directive...
    Always remember this stuff isn't real.

  6. #36
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    How did they know for sure that more cultural contamination is not going to worsen the situation?

  7. #37
    Non-fanboy C. Earl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Choblik View Post
    How did they know for sure that more cultural contamination is not going to worsen the situation?
    In a way, that's exactly what Kirk was to prevent. It was more about containing the damage that had already been done and allowing the civilization to move forward without further interference from that point. Sometimes Kirk had the authory to kickstart a civilization that had stagnated as was the case in "The Return of the Archons" and "The Apple."
    Always remember this stuff isn't real.

  8. #38
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    So just because he went down there with good intentions which is what Starfleet is supposed to do that means that things cannot go wrong? Than why have a Prime Directive?

  9. #39
    Think happy thoughts Parch's Avatar
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    The conflict with the Prime Directive is part of the interest. It's not always black and white, and without the Prime Directive the grey area decisions become meaningless without those rules to break and debate.

  10. #40
    Senior Member AJBopp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Choblik View Post
    I dooubt that that in the grand scheme of things saving the population of Pompeii would have much consequences besides allowing those people to live some more.
    Saving the population of Pompeii would mean hundreds of millions of people throughout history that would be born who were not born because the city was destroyed. The potential in those lives cannot be calculated. The potential for good or evil, it's impossible to say. But the consequences would inevitably be enormous.
    In my opinion is implied in every post. Please make an effort to remember that.

  11. #41
    Non-fanboy C. Earl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Choblik View Post
    So just because he went down there with good intentions which is what Starfleet is supposed to do that means that things cannot go wrong? Than why have a Prime Directive?
    Once could ask why even visit other worlds and contact other life-forms?

    The Prime Directive is really just a set of "rules of exploration" that sometimes isn't easy for our heroes to follow and creates drama for them.
    Always remember this stuff isn't real.

  12. #42
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    Parch posted:


    The conflict with the Prime Directive is part of the interest.
    There is conflict about aproaching a new cvilisations in every first contactc whetever it's american ships at the shores of Japan or conquiscadors in South America.

    It's not always black and white, and without the Prime Directive the grey area decisions become meaningless without those rules to break and debate.
    All First contact decisions are meaningfull even without a Prime Directive.

    Bopp:

    Saving the population of Pompeii would mean hundreds of millions of people throughout history that would be born who were not born because the city was destroyed. The potential in those lives cannot be calculated. The potential for good or evil, it's impossible to say. But the consequences would inevitably be enormous.
    By that logic mass shootings should not be prevented by the police. I wery much doubt it would had made much difference. The people of Pompeii were products of their time.

    C Earl:
    The Prime Directive is really just a set of "rules of exploration" that sometimes isn't easy for our heroes to follow and creates drama for them.
    First Contact= drama. No need for the Prime Directive.

  13. #43
    Elder Member dupersuper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Choblik View Post
    That the Prime Directive does not have to be an important plot point and there are plenty of other interesting sources for stories.
    To which I'll add my voice to...

    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    And so did Buck Rogers...but that doesn't mean anything. Different shows have different internal rules that make them unique.
    Pull List; seems to be too long to fit in my sig...

  14. #44
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    I don't see why certain internal rules could not be changed.

  15. #45
    Non-fanboy C. Earl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Choblik View Post
    C Earl:


    First Contact= drama. No need for the Prime Directive.
    I disagree, because not every first contact with a new civilization is the same. Some civilizations may be ready technologically, but not socially.
    Always remember this stuff isn't real.

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