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  1. #16
    Inf‚me et fier de l'Ítre Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexrules View Post
    Kinda completely opposite of what Superman has always been about ain't it.
    Nope. Unless somehow, the Golden Age, Fleisher's, or every version where he does his thing, and leave without doing interviewsaren't Superman anymore. Hell, even Maggin's to some extend didn't need people to love him (in Last Son of Krypton, Superman welcomes the idea that people may think he may be uneccassary).
    "I'm going to paraphrase Nietzsche, when you judge a work, the work judges you."

  2. #17
    Inf‚me et fier de l'Ítre Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adkal View Post
    I am curious, though, as to why Kara isn't even thinking about the ill-logic behind H'El's proposal - if they go back in time and stop Krypton from exploding then Kal and Kara aren't sent to Earth, Kal doesn't retrieve Kandor, H'El then doesn't have the power source, and by the time he gets to Earth, anyway...well, Earth wouldn't even be there...
    Let's not talk about ill logic in time travel. Time travel doesn't make sense. It didn't make sense in Back to the Future , it didn't make sense in the Butterfly Effect, it didn't make sense in any comic that doesn't involve creations of parrallel earths. Time travel stories create incoherences every time, and that's because we actually have no idea how time travel will work (if it's even possible) so we just have to accept to not look into this too much.
    "I'm going to paraphrase Nietzsche, when you judge a work, the work judges you."

  3. #18
    It's Lexrules... GET HIM. Lexrules's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post
    Nope. Unless somehow, the Golden Age, Fleisher's, or every version where he does his thing, and leave without doing interviewsaren't Superman anymore. Hell, even Maggin's to some extend didn't need people to love him (in Last Son of Krypton, Superman welcomes the idea that people may think he may be uneccassary).
    But he still wants to be loved. He is just afraid that it will lead to those he loves being hurt or killed if anyone finds out who he is. The idea that Superman could care less to be loved is Wrong.

  4. #19
    Inf‚me et fier de l'Ítre Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexrules View Post
    But he still wants to be loved. He is just afraid that it will lead to those he loves being hurt or killed if anyone finds out who he is. The idea that Superman could care less to be loved is Wrong.
    Huh....we're not talking about Lois here. Or Jimmy, or anyone he knows personnally. We're talking about the regular dude on the street. We have no evidence that Fleisher Superman cared about what the people on the street believed about him (or even what the people of the street does think). Golden Age Superman was hunted by the police and couldn't care less. And, as I said, Maggin's Superman( one I know you like) actually thought that people being critical of his influence on mankind was a good idea for the development of the human species.
    There have been many versions of Superman that didn't have this need of being adored by everyone and focussed on doing the job, and that's a good thing, because that kind of need is creepy.
    "I'm going to paraphrase Nietzsche, when you judge a work, the work judges you."

  5. #20
    It's Lexrules... GET HIM. Lexrules's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post
    Huh....we're not talking about Lois here. Or Jimmy, or anyone he knows personnally. We're talking about the regular dude on the street. We have no evidence that Fleisher Superman cared about what the people on the street believed about him (or even what the people of the street does think). Golden Age Superman was hunted by the police and couldn't care less. And, as I said, Maggin's Superman( one I know you like) actually thought that people being critical of his influence on mankind was a good idea for the development of the human species.
    There have been many versions of Superman that didn't have this need of being adored by everyone and focussed on doing the job, and that's a good thing, because that kind of need is creepy.
    But saving a life is more then just a job to him. He does it because he cares and he knows he is the only one who could do the job. He even cares for the villains who try to kill him. Caring for someone or something is a sign of love. People care for Superman which is a sign of love and in return he cares for them back. It's more then just a Job.

  6. #21
    Inf‚me et fier de l'Ítre Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexrules View Post
    But saving a life is more then just a job to him. He does it because he cares and he knows he is the only one who could do the job. He even cares for the villains who try to kill him. Caring for someone or something is a sign of love. People care for Superman which is a sign of love and in return he cares for them back. It's more then just a Job.
    You do realize that there is a difference between caring for people in general and caring about what people think about you?
    It's like the main difference between a really good man and a guy who just want to be the center of attention.
    This Superman care for people. In Action, all he did was to defend them (saving the people who lived in the abandonned building, help at the reconstruction of a building that got destroyed in a fight....), in Supergirl, it's obvious he cares about her general well being, he saved Superboy's life, etc.....But if Red Hood says "I won't trust because you're too powerful", his reaction is "yeah sure, whatever. It's not like I'm going anywhere". I don't see what's so unSuperman like in that.
    "I'm going to paraphrase Nietzsche, when you judge a work, the work judges you."

  7. #22
    It's Lexrules... GET HIM. Lexrules's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post
    You do realize that there is a difference between caring for people in general and caring about what people think about you?
    It's like the main difference between a really good man and a guy who just want to be the center of attention.
    This Superman care for people. In Action, all he did was to defend them (saving the people who lived in the abandonned building, help at the reconstruction of a building that got destroyed in a fight....), in Supergirl, it's obvious he cares about her general well being, he saved Superboy's life, etc.....But if Red Hood says "I won't trust because you're too powerful", his reaction is "yeah sure, whatever. It's not like I'm going anywhere". I don't see what's so unSuperman like in that.
    Because that reaction shouldn't be there to begin with. The fact that they made him 27 instead of 37 loses so much of the dynamics of the character and how people look at him. When you look at Superman you should instantly get a feeling of respect and wonderment. It is sad to me that the kids in the DCnU don't see that anymore when they are in the same room as Superman that they just see another hero or someone who could be a threat instead of someone to look up to and try to be more like. It's like all the trust has been taken out of the DC Universe and it saddens me to no end.

    Just my 2 cents but I feel that wonderment and pure love and trust of the character is sorely missing.

  8. #23
    Inf‚me et fier de l'Ítre Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexrules View Post
    Because that reaction shouldn't be there to begin with. The fact that they made him 27 instead of 37 loses so much of the dynamics of the character and how people look at him. When you look at Superman you should instantly get a feeling of respect and wonderment. It is sad to me that the kids in the DCnU don't see that anymore when they are in the same room as Superman that they just see another hero or someone who could be a threat instead of someone to look up to and try to be more like. It's like all the trust has been taken out of the DC Universe and it saddens me to no end.

    Just my 2 cents but I feel that wonderment and pure love and trust of the character is sorely missing.
    Superman was 37 before? And Lois was about the same age? Okay, they sure didn't look like it, didn't behave like it, and had nothing to indicate they evere this old.
    And, just for the reccord, I think the age has nothing to do with any of it, and I think 27 is the right age for a character who has been in business for 5 years. Unless you want to insinuate Superman waited until he was 32 to start to use his powers to be a hero.......and to get a job.....
    I'm pretty sure Byrne's Superman wasn't 37.
    "I'm going to paraphrase Nietzsche, when you judge a work, the work judges you."

  9. #24
    It's Lexrules... GET HIM. Lexrules's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post
    Superman was 37 before? And Lois was about the same age? Okay, they sure didn't look like it, didn't behave like it, and had nothing to indicate they evere this old.
    And, just for the reccord, I think the age has nothing to do with any of it, and I think 27 is the right age for a character who has been in business for 5 years. Unless you want to insinuate Superman waited until he was 32 to start to use his powers to be a hero.......and to get a job.....
    I'm pretty sure Byrne's Superman wasn't 37.
    He was in his mid 30's, He could have been between 34 and 37, I just put the latter. He was in his mid 30's for most of his creation too if you look into it. I have always felt being in your mid 30's as being a true adult who has seen things in there life and is someone to learn from. I never saw a person in there mid 20's as being a true adult just yet. Sure your old enough to drink and vote but have you really had any really life expenses or made all the mistakes needed to truly learn from them.

    That's just me and how I have always felt and why I will always think Superman should be that age to truly be Superman. To me this New 52 is still in many ways is a Superboy still learning the ropes which could be why the younger gen in the DC Universe don't look up to him the way they should.

    But that's just my way of thinking.

  10. #25
    Senior Member adkal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post
    Superman was 37 before? And Lois was about the same age? Okay, they sure didn't look like it, didn't behave like it, and had nothing to indicate they evere this old.
    I'm pretty sure Clark's obituary back during the World Without story cited him to be in his 30s.

    In order for Pete to be VPotUS he had to be 34, didn't he?

    Add in a couple of anniversaries, 52 and the whole 'one year later' thing and Clark was pushing (one thousand and) 40.

    And, just for the reccord, I think the age has nothing to do with any of it, and I think 27 is the right age for a character who has been in business for 5 years. Unless you want to insinuate Superman waited until he was 32 to start to use his powers to be a hero.......and to get a job.....
    I'm pretty sure Byrne's Superman wasn't 37.
    Byrne's version was early-to-mid 20s when he started and around 29 at the end of the Man of Steel mini, and, for a couple of decades, the general approach was '4 years of our time is 1 year comic book time'.

  11. #26
    Inf‚me et fier de l'Ítre Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adkal View Post
    I'm pretty sure Clark's obituary back during the World Without story cited him to be in his 30s.

    In order for Pete to be VPotUS he had to be 34, didn't he?

    Add in a couple of anniversaries, 52 and the whole 'one year later' thing and Clark was pushing (one thousand and) 40.



    Byrne's version was early-to-mid 20s when he started and around 29 at the end of the Man of Steel mini, and, for a couple of decades, the general approach was '4 years of our time is 1 year comic book time'.
    - In his 30's isn't exactly 37, though. I mean, is it stated somewhere?

    -Which raises another question: what about Jimmy Olsen? Because, in the Johns' story about Toyman, he's stated to be 22. But he was there in Man Of Steel. So, if he was 29 at the end of MOS, and 37 by the end of Post Crisis, then that means 8 years have passed. That would mean that, in MOS, Jimmy was 14 years old. That's......kind of weird.
    Of course, Secret Origins probably could be the thing to be looked on to. But Jimmy was in that story too. Considering it's unlikely Superman got a job while being older than 29 (unless he's a total slacker), if he's 37 by modern time, then.....That means Jimmy started to work around his 14's as well. Isn't that......illegal?
    ....Nah, making him that old just creates too much trouble, 27-29 is a good age for a "present day" Superman. Old enough, but still has life before him to have all kind of adventures.
    "I'm going to paraphrase Nietzsche, when you judge a work, the work judges you."

  12. #27
    Senior Member adkal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post
    - In his 30's isn't exactly 37, though. I mean, is it stated somewhere?
    I said '30s' because I cannot remember the exact age listed in the obituary, but an actual number in the 30s is given - I want to say 33 but I cannot, at this point in time, be sure of it.

    The Pete Ross position is somewhat more certain as there is nothing to indicate that the Qualifications of the Office of the PotUS are different there than they are in our world, so (correction) Pete would have to be 35, ergo Clark was 35 at the time of the election.

    -Which raises another question: what about Jimmy Olsen? Because, in the Johns' story about Toyman, he's stated to be 22. But he was there in Man Of Steel. So, if he was 29 at the end of MOS, and 37 by the end of Post Crisis, then that means 8 years have passed. That would mean that, in MOS, Jimmy was 14 years old. That's......kind of weird.
    Yeah, well, it's Geoff Johns and he loves his retcons.

    Of course, Secret Origins probably could be the thing to be looked on to. But Jimmy was in that story too. Considering it's unlikely Superman got a job while being older than 29 (unless he's a total slacker), if he's 37 by modern time, then.....That means Jimmy started to work around his 14's as well. Isn't that......illegal?
    ....Nah, making him that old just creates too much trouble, 27-29 is a good age for a "present day" Superman. Old enough, but still has life before him to have all kind of adventures.
    Not saying 'present day' Superman shouldn't be 27-29, but the pre52 one had around 15 years' experience (ditto with Batman since NML was around year 12 and took place over a year, and so on and so forth )

  13. #28
    Senior Member Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexrules View Post
    Yea, and since it is a comic book it is progress that will never come. It's either set or it is not. These characters do not age unless the writers tell them to age and they will act like the writer writes them.

    I have and will always see Superman as larger then life and a inspiration to ALL not only on the DC Earth but the DC Universe. You want him stern, so do I but also want him to be a leader that when he speaks EVERYONE listens and respects because he is Superman and there is only one. And this way of thinking should take more then 5 years to get across. It should be established by know in that time frame.
    You just disproved your main argument against me. They are moving forward seeming as soon with the close of this arc the world will find out about the FOS and we'll see how they take it.

    Saying they're set is like saying Superman never married Lois or killed Zod or spent time in space or died or came back or adopted a kid or lost his dad or lost his people.

    If they so choose the writers will move it more forward and it seems like we're getting that with the world soon finding out about the FOS after this arc and Superman's relationship with his family growing.

    You really have no platform to talk about this unless you read the books.

  14. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Just like Dr. V said in Superman 13 "you're Superman anything you do is up for interpretation". The people who don't know him very well think he's arrogant and such because they wouldn't expect a man with that much power to not be. Jason lets his fear of Superman's scope cloud his actual character and who he really is. This is pretty much the mind set of half the world.

    For the people that do know him they know he's a great great man (JL Batman in particular).

    But most of this really comes from Superman's new, and frankly refreshing, 'action speak louder than words' mind set. He is much less chatty and less prone to speech making then he used to be. So he comes of less like a political figure and more like a force of raw nature that can be seen in many ways.

    Superboy actually calls him arrogant several times due to Superman's tendency to not beat around the bush with his talk. What we're dealing with now is a Superman who is really just out to do what's right and that's it. He will still save the cats from the trees and all but he won't go to the press meeting for whatever. He's very much a man of action now.

    However is he still the super inspiring 'when he talks people listen' Superman? Yes he's ever inch still that as we saw in Superman issue 15 and GL told us in JL (I forget the issue). GL said "when you do talk you always seem to say the right thing".

    We're just dealing with a world that doesn't completely trust a man-god after just 5 years of knowing him. Most may say "well it's a comic book so why can't they just trust him" to that I say well it's a comic book why can't they just not completely trust him?

    It's a work in progress.
    Excellent points. Very well said. Thank you.

  15. #30
    Senior Member Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rithmomachy View Post
    Excellent points. Very well said. Thank you.
    Thank you :)

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