Thor and Loki bloodbrothers question (spoilers)

[Rheged]

Yes, Loki can be sympathetic at times. He can also be a total dick. He is a manipulative bastard, he is a liar, and not only is he that way to everyone else, he's that way to himself. He screws himself over constantly. The tragedy of Loki is the fact that he is locked into this role and no matter what, he cannot change it. He tries to erase his past self and start up a completely new destiny? Nope, goes right back to his old self. He gets the throne? It doesn't matter, he's never, ever going to get what he wants (and I'd argue that he doesn't even know what he wants, at this point, other than to spread chaos because that is what Loki does and nevermind an actual endgame).

Which makes sense, if he's a god, a representation / manifestation / archetype of a specific trait or aspect. Gods only change when their worshipers change. Granted, not much has been done with this in the MU, as they tend to shy away from defining / dealing the divine.

He's not a two-dimensional villain, but he's not a sweet innocent kitten who does bad things because Sif was mean to him. Yeah, the guy's got issues and various events in his life (some that he brought on himself, some that he didn't) made him what he is. But that doesn't excuse his actions. It makes them more understandable, but doesn't excuse them.

Even when he was a two dimensional villain in the silver age, he was interesting and different from most other Marvel villains. I loved how twisted and crafty he was, how emotional and cowardly -- and went from being a villain to a victim in his own head, back and forth. Like his shapeshifting, Loki was always slippery.

I'm not sure you can even say Loki's Asgardian's experiences made him, though I think that's how he justifies things to himself. Didn't he have a hand in Laufey's death? He was already molded, before he even came to Asgard.

Also, Sif is awesome. And I guarantee she's going to have to deal with the things she did while under the influence of the Berserker spell.

Agreed. I'm very interested to see how this falls out and the effect on Sif.

[Ranniks]

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Just wanted to say: thank you so much for the posts!

Just finished reading 2 Loki fanfics and I'm beginning to feel less sad=p.

Still havn't gotten a real answer on whether Loki died at the end of Blood Brothers or not.

[seekquaze]

Just wanted to say: thank you so much for the posts!

Just finished reading 2 Loki fanfics and I'm beginning to feel less sad=p.

Still havn't gotten a real answer on whether Loki died at the end of Blood Brothers or not.

That is because there is no answer. IT DOES NOT MATTER. All we see is Thor bringing the hammer down. Either this version of Thor was fed up with Loki and killed him by smashing his head in or Loki is tied to a rock with a snake dripping venom over him. It does not matter. The point is this version of Loki is still trapped in his own cycle. Any epiphany he had will be replaced by his hatred of Thor. Asgard will never believe Loki has reformed. To them, it is only another lie.

[xDurgax]

When I read that scene my first thought was, "please be dead Loki", because other way you will spend the rest of your inmortality chained to a rock. I think that dead by a single blow will be a lot more merciful that the snake thing.

But yes basically the message was that Loki is chained to the wheel of fate whitout any chance of salvation.

[linkspirit97]

The 2011 Loki series was full of lies, however, I think they were lies Loki believed.

[Clea]

The Marvel version of Loki has always been evil. Personally I prefer the original mythic incarnation of Loki as 'god of mischief' vs. the Marvel version of 'god of lies and evil' but this topic is just about the Marvel version. Tom Hiddleston's really terrific portrayal of Loki in the Marvel movies managed to make Loki into such a sympathetic character for some viewers that these fans are willing to justify or ignore all of the horrible things that he did in both movies. I understand that, I really do, but at the same time I think that even viewing movie Loki as a tragic, misunderstood underdog means that you missed what the character was really doing and thinking. Movie Loki is no more a misunderstood woobie good-guy than the comics version.

No matter how beautifully Hiddelston portrayed Loki's loneliness and sadness, in his heart Marvel movie Loki is as messed up and evil as the comics version. Hiddleston himself even acknowledged this in his letter to Journey Into Mystery writer, Kieron Gillen, "You and I see Loki the same way. He's one dark, anarchic, bottomless black hole of rage, hatred, pity and pain. An exiled outcast, a lost & lonely agent of chaos, who wouldn't know what to do with familial forgiveness if it walked up to him in the street and slapped him in the face." Marvel Loki is such a twisted and evil character that he even murdered his own innocent, good-hearted child incarnation of himself (Kid Loki) as part of a plot. Marvel Loki is not a good guy and does not deserve sympathy or forgiveness for all of the horrible things he's done.

The answer to the question of 'did Thor kill Loki at the end of Bloodbrothers' is, it doesn't matter. You can't trust Marvel Loki's version of events because he will always lie and always paint himself as the misunderstood victim even when he's doing monstrous things. Also, readers absolutely should not fall for Loki's twisted viewpoint of Sif and use that to justify hating Sif. That's absolutely wrong. When it comes to Sif, Loki is off the rails hateful and crazy.

All that said, going forward it is entirely possible that Marvel could start to write a more nuanced version of the character, so perhaps we'll see a Loki who is more chaotic neutral and less pure evil. Kid Loki in Journey Into Mystery proved that if given a truly fresh start, Loki could be a good (though incredibly chaotic) character. I'm sure that the Marvel PTB are well aware of the amount of sympathy that Hiddleston generated for the movie version of Loki. Now we have the jaded, evil adult version of Loki masquerading as Kid Loki in Young Avengers. This could be just another typical evil Marvel Loki ruse, or it could give Marvel an opening to start writing Loki as a more chaotically neutral character. It's too early to know yet.