Nightwing #16 Preveiw/Discussion

[HXHAlex]

This actually looks pretty good

[sidekick77]

Lol I do love Joker giving Dick some (correct) life advice.

What's sadly ironic is that Dick has logged in many hours away from Gotham in the preboot: over a decade with the Titans, nearly as much in Bludhaven, and prior to RIP, he was living in NY.

I feel like Joker getting meta on the issue is really Higgins putting Dick in this position only to fingerwag at him for 'nesting'. *shrug* but I'm not going to complain about getting him out of Gotham now; I'm happy with whatever gets him some distance from the cyclic Bat events.

[Godlike13]

What's sadly ironic is that Dick has logged in many hours away from Gotham in the preboot: over a decade with the Titans, nearly as much in Bludhaven, and prior to RIP, he was living in NY.

I feel like Joker getting meta on the issue is really Higgins putting Dick in this position only to fingerwag at him for 'nesting'. *shrug* but I'm not going to complain about getting him out of Gotham now; I'm happy with whatever gets him some distance from the cyclic Bat events.

I think his time away might be what the Joker is talking about with the whole "You Abandoned Him", but I don't know with the whole relaunch and all. Maybe he is just talking about his sort stint traveling with the circus, and im just seeing something else. Though to be honest i wouldn't mind if they keep it vague, so i can see it how ever i want.

[HXHAlex]

AWESOME ISSUE! It almost seems DOTF is setting up to affect Nightwing the most

[Retro315]

"It's comics" will be an unacceptable answer to any of my plot questions.

Bearing in mind that I can go with Joker jokerizing large swaths of people so they obey him and wear grins ... but how do you dig up the bodies of that many people without setting off alarm-bells and being tracked down by authorities? I live in a small town and even here if a graveyard gets vandalized it's not that hard for small town cops to figure out who did it. Multiply that factor with the means of transport: Massive and the odds of Joker's second-hand goons not getting caught. Now multiply that by the fact that Haly's Circus is a traveling circus and many if not most of these deceased would be buried all over America, or the world.

My question then becomes not whether or not I can reconcile Joker setting up this room, but rather "It is so obviously a hoax. How can Dick Grayson not immediately detect/detective that fact and not appear all distraught and overwhelmed by it? It's Dick fracking Grayson. He should barely even be 'whelmed'.

Once that's over, Joker converting a whole circus into an exploding fun-house of doom and making Dick run through a gauntlet, get bonked last minute, and dragged to the Big Show in Batman # 17 is okay and I can roll with it. But Dick needs to be played a lot ... cooler. Under fire, in style, every which way. Because he's not Batman-Lite. He's way cooler than Bruce, more fun and he knows it. He also knows how to flash a smile with a devil-may-care attitude, and he also knows how to have witty banter with the Joker rather than stand around jaw agape at the horrrrrror! The horrrrrror!

[Godlike13]

Wow, this was hardcore. Im not sure what to think of this to be honest. Part of me enjoyed the brutality of it, yet oddly at the same time part of me kind of questions such a horror show in a Nightwing comic, and another part is like they just spent the last year trying to get me invested in that circus and now boom! I just don't know what to think. I knew this was gonna be dark. Just not this dark. Certainly leaves me wondering where Nightwing is gonna go next after this. I think its gonna come down to the rebound for me, what Dick does next.

But i agree with Retro, i know Haleys is important to Dick, and i get that, but still i think he could have been a bit more composed under fire. Honestly one thing i wont miss about Barrows is all the serious face, and over expressions. Nightwing needs be way more cool

[wolvie616]

I'm sorry. At this point there's absolutely no way I buy that the joker set up everything in Nightwing, Batman, Batman and Robin, Batgirl, Teen Titans, Suicide Squad, Catwoman, and Red Hood and the Outlaws. The timeframe makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. There is no way in the span of time Batman went from the manor to Arkham that all of this happened.

[HXHAlex]

I'm sorry. At this point there's absolutely no way I buy that the joker set up everything in Nightwing, Batman, Batman and Robin, Batgirl, Teen Titans, Suicide Squad, Catwoman, and Red Hood and the Outlaws. The timeframe makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. There is no way in the span of time Batman went from the manor to Arkham that all of this happened.

But you can accept Batman not calling in flash and superman to quickly pop up in gotham and find Alfred and neutralize joker?

[Godlike13]

"It's comics" will be an unacceptable answer to any of my plot questions.

Bearing in mind that I can go with Joker jokerizing large swaths of people so they obey him and wear grins ... but how do you dig up the bodies of that many people without setting off alarm-bells and being tracked down by authorities? I live in a small town and even here if a graveyard gets vandalized it's not that hard for small town cops to figure out who did it. Multiply that factor with the means of transport: Massive and the odds of Joker's second-hand goons not getting caught. Now multiply that by the fact that Haly's Circus is a traveling circus and many if not most of these deceased would be buried all over America, or the world.

My question then becomes not whether or not I can reconcile Joker setting up this room, but rather "It is so obviously a hoax. How can Dick Grayson not immediately detect/detective that fact and not appear all distraught and overwhelmed by it? It's Dick fracking Grayson. He should barely even be 'whelmed'.

Once that's over, Joker converting a whole circus into an exploding fun-house of doom and making Dick run through a gauntlet, get bonked last minute, and dragged to the Big Show in Batman # 17 is okay and I can roll with it. But Dick needs to be played a lot ... cooler. Under fire, in style, every which way. Because he's not Batman-Lite. He's way cooler than Bruce, more fun and he knows it. He also knows how to flash a smile with a devil-may-care attitude, and he also knows how to have witty banter with the Joker rather than stand around jaw agape at the horrrrrror! The horrrrrror!

Well i got two theories about the bodies. One they were just random dead bodies and the Joker was just bullshitting, i mean Nightwing did just seem to throw those wingdings and didn't seem to care much when they hit that body. So maybe he figured that too. Or two, Haley's is an old traveling circus, and like u said many if not most of these deceased would be buried all over America. Which means it would be kind of just a bunch of seemly random hit and run grave robbing, with probably different perpetrators, spread out all over america. That would actually make it pretty hard figure out who did it unless they catch them in the act.

[Emissary of Justice]

Joker could've gathered everything he needed over the year he's been away.

[wolvie616]

But you can accept Batman not calling in flash and superman to quickly pop up in gotham and find Alfred and neutralize joker?

Yes, for a few reasons

1) They have their own adventures/monthlies/baddies to deal with. The Gorrilla Grodd and beginning of the H'El on earth arcs could well be taking place during DoTF

2) It's in Character for Bruce not to do so

3) The Teen Titans and Outlaws might seem to be reinforcement enough

[HXHAlex]

Joker could've gathered everything he needed over the year he's been away.

exactly, if you can buy "every superhero is busy with their own problems so they can't help batman" you can buy joker preparing this

Yes, for a few reasons

1) They have their own adventures/monthlies/baddies to deal with. The Gorrilla Grodd and beginning of the H'El on earth arcs could well be taking place during DoTF

2) It's in Character for Bruce not to do so

3) The Teen Titans and Outlaws might seem to be reinforcement enough

But Batman is helping Superman in H'el on earth right now

[wolvie616]

exactly, if you can buy "every superhero is buys with their own problems so they can't help batman" you can buy joker preparing this


But Batman is helping Superman in H'el on earth right now

There's a difference between reconciling timelines between different monthlies and assuming that the Joker fought Batgirl, Robin, Red Robin, Red Hood and Nightwing, set up all these traps for them, beat them, got BACK to Arkham, and prepped for Batman himself in the time it takes Batman, in the Batmoblie, to get from Wayne Manor to Arkham Asylum

[LoneNecromancer]

Once that's over, Joker converting a whole circus into an exploding fun-house of doom and making Dick run through a gauntlet, get bonked last minute, and dragged to the Big Show in Batman # 17 is okay and I can roll with it. But Dick needs to be played a lot ... cooler. Under fire, in style, every which way. Because he's not Batman-Lite. He's way cooler than Bruce, more fun and he knows it. He also knows how to flash a smile with a devil-may-care attitude, and he also knows how to have witty banter with the Joker rather than stand around jaw agape at the horrrrrror! The horrrrrror!

Yeah, I noticed that while looking at the preview. There's been way too many shots of Dick just staring in open-mouthed, wide-eyed horror in this run.

[HXHAlex]

There's a difference between reconciling timelines between different monthlies and assuming that the Joker fought Batgirl, Robin, Red Robin, Red Hood and Nightwing, set up all these traps for them, beat them, got BACK to Arkham, and prepped for Batman himself in the time it takes Batman, in the Batmoblie, to get from Wayne Manor to Arkham Asylum

alright fair enough