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  1. #46
    Elder Member zryson's Avatar
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    Digital is the future but the comic industry is slow to change, and charges too much. They need to experiment with the layout and digital possibilities via a comic medium - maybe additional information not readily available in standard print versions would be a good starting point? But the biggest problem with comics is that they are still essentially a niche market and a small market unlike the wider record buying public or in this case digital music industry. So there are bound to be teething problems.

  2. #47
    Fur Bearing Indy Fan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadenewt View Post
    Printing costs about a 1.00 a book (depending on how many copies the publisher orders.)
    http://robot6.comicbookresources.com...-print-comics/
    No, they don't. Waid's math is misleading in that regard. You (or me, if I were to self published) might pay somewhere approaching a dollar an issue. The major publisher aren't anywhere kind of sort of near that. I know what it costs for me to print each copy of a book with a print run of ten thousand when a book is published by Image and it's a waaaaaay less than a buck an issue. I don't know how much Marvel and DC pay, aside from it being less. Economies of scale. Print gets very, very cheap when you print a lot.

    I can also tell you that right now, if you buy my Image through Comixology by way of Apple, for instance, I make less money per issue than I would if it were print at the same cover price. Slightly more than print if it's direct through Comixology. But for anyone operating at professional scale, the actual cost of the physical object is always going to be the smallest chunk of the retail price.

  3. #48
    Elder Member BrotherUnitNo_4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zryson View Post
    Digital is the future but the comic industry is slow to change, and charges too much. They need to experiment with the layout and digital possibilities via a comic medium - maybe additional information not readily available in standard print versions would be a good starting point? But the biggest problem with comics is that they are still essentially a niche market and a small market unlike the wider record buying public or in this case digital music industry. So there are bound to be teething problems.
    Speaking of layouts, I was really a fan of what Marvel was doing with the Infinite Comics, and I'm highly disappointed to see that digital initiative completely dry up post AvX. I gather it requires a little more work to produce but surely they could produce a few of those throughout the year.

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Jordan View Post
    No, they don't. Waid's math is misleading in that regard. You (or me, if I were to self published) might pay somewhere approaching a dollar an issue. The major publisher aren't anywhere kind of sort of near that. I know what it costs for me to print each copy of a book with a print run of ten thousand when a book is published by Image and it's a waaaaaay less than a buck an issue. I don't know how much Marvel and DC pay, aside from it being less. Economies of scale. Print gets very, very cheap when you print a lot.

    I can also tell you that right now, if you buy my Image through Comixology by way of Apple, for instance, I make less money per issue than I would if it were print at the same cover price. Slightly more than print if it's direct through Comixology. But for anyone operating at professional scale, the actual cost of the physical object is always going to be the smallest chunk of the retail price.
    Thanks for bringing your professional experience to the discussion.
    Currently reading She-Hulk, Deadpool, Swamp Thing, Ms. Marvel

    Probation: Ghost Rider, Loki: LoA, Secret Avengers

    Looking forward to All-New Ultimates, Flash Gordon and Doctor Mirage.

  4. #49
    Tai'shar Manetheren Jadenewt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Jordan View Post
    No, they don't. Waid's math is misleading in that regard. You (or me, if I were to self published) might pay somewhere approaching a dollar an issue. The major publisher aren't anywhere kind of sort of near that. I know what it costs for me to print each copy of a book with a print run of ten thousand when a book is published by Image and it's a waaaaaay less than a buck an issue. I don't know how much Marvel and DC pay, aside from it being less. Economies of scale. Print gets very, very cheap when you print a lot.

    I can also tell you that right now, if you buy my Image through Comixology by way of Apple, for instance, I make less money per issue than I would if it were print at the same cover price. Slightly more than print if it's direct through Comixology. But for anyone operating at professional scale, the actual cost of the physical object is always going to be the smallest chunk of the retail price.
    Interesting. Well I stand corrected.
    D-Deadman! You killed Deadman!!

  5. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Jordan View Post
    No, they don't. Waid's math is misleading in that regard. You (or me, if I were to self published) might pay somewhere approaching a dollar an issue. The major publisher aren't anywhere kind of sort of near that. I know what it costs for me to print each copy of a book with a print run of ten thousand when a book is published by Image and it's a waaaaaay less than a buck an issue. I don't know how much Marvel and DC pay, aside from it being less. Economies of scale. Print gets very, very cheap when you print a lot.

    I can also tell you that right now, if you buy my Image through Comixology by way of Apple, for instance, I make less money per issue than I would if it were print at the same cover price. Slightly more than print if it's direct through Comixology. But for anyone operating at professional scale, the actual cost of the physical object is always going to be the smallest chunk of the retail price.
    This sounds very similar to what I hear about the book publishing trade. The physical costs aren't nearly as high as the marketing and editorial overhead. (ETA: For the big publishers, that is; they have costs the self publishers don't have).

  6. #51
    Gotham Guardian Captain Jim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhymeswithparc View Post
    I think that the average person who is wants to read comics has no problem walking into a comic book store. I don't think the argument can be made that they can't find it either since you can look it up very easily... My comic shop is located in the heart of the city with moderately large signs and advertisements.
    I've seen a lot of posts on CBR from fans who say they live nowhere near a comic book store. Sometimes the closest one is hours away. Not everyone lives in a big city.

    Quote Originally Posted by Famousringo View Post
    All I can really ask of digital comics is that they make more back issues available (which they always are, slowly but surely) and perhaps lower the price of those old books (which they kinda do, through sales). Also, putting graphic novels on Comixology would be nice.
    I agree with this.

    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Or they can finally realize what can stay in print and what should go to digital.

    Look I Vampire. What would stop DC from doing this-have that creative team do a year's worth of stories. Release the single issue digital only and then release the trade in print? Your creative is free to do other projects and if needed can be bought back together for another run in that same format.

    Digital I Vampire fans will be happy and print fans will still get the series only 2 times a month.
    Interesting idea. At first I thought you were going to say, just continue it in digital only. That probably wouldn't be financially feasible. But when you combine digital and trade collection - especially with a title that does well in the book market - that just might work.

    Quote Originally Posted by original IGN article
    One of the greatest benefits of digital services is that things never sellout or go out of print. With collector mentality out of the picture, publishers can capitalize on existing products and how to get them into the hands of new generations. There is decades of stuff available.
    I think this is a great point. With print comics, the greatest deterrent to purchasing past titles is 1) tracking down the issues and 2) paying the inflated prices on popular back issues.
    Jim Zimmerman
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  7. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Jim View Post
    Interesting idea. At first I thought you were going to say, just continue it in digital only. That probably wouldn't be financially feasible. But when you combine digital and trade collection - especially with a title that does well in the book market - that just might work.
    It does work for self publishers for Phil Foglio...much better than doing print. That suggests there should be a way for a larger company to do it as well.

  8. #53
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    What I don't get with digital comics is why the companies aren't pushing their back catalog harder. Perhaps they are and I'm just not aware of it. I know the $ .99 sales are common, but I'm thinking something larger scale. Something like Batman issues 1-100 for $39.99. Marvel put out DVD-Roms years ago for X-Men and Spider-Man containing all the back issues. This would be similar. LCS arn't making their money on back issues any more so I don't think this would hit them too hard. Other than trade sales, the publishers aren't making money off of printed back issues, so why not use digital better. I'm a fully print collector, and love my boxes, but I know that I'm never going to collect most DC and Marvel issues older than 1980 because of the price, but I'd jump at the chance to read them at a decent cost.

  9. #54
    Veteran Member glennsim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowcat2576 View Post
    What I don't get with digital comics is why the companies aren't pushing their back catalog harder. Perhaps they are and I'm just not aware of it. I know the $ .99 sales are common, but I'm thinking something larger scale. Something like Batman issues 1-100 for $39.99. Marvel put out DVD-Roms years ago for X-Men and Spider-Man containing all the back issues. This would be similar. LCS arn't making their money on back issues any more so I don't think this would hit them too hard. Other than trade sales, the publishers aren't making money off of printed back issues, so why not use digital better. I'm a fully print collector, and love my boxes, but I know that I'm never going to collect most DC and Marvel issues older than 1980 because of the price, but I'd jump at the chance to read them at a decent cost.
    I imagine it has to do with expected sales against the costs of the digitizing/hosting process.
    The DC relaunch was successful and was executed in what was most likely the best way it could given restrictions we wouldn't know about. No, your idea wouldn't have worked. Now move on.

  10. #55
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    I'd like for DC to discount most older comics to 99 cents. They should probably discount newer but canceled series. If people aren't paying full price in stores, they won't at full price digital either.

    Better yet, heavily discount those on the chopping block before cancellation, see if sales pick up.

  11. #56
    Junior Member kakitamike's Avatar
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    One complaint I see from most die-hard print readers is that they don't own their digital comic. While it doesn't really bug me as a digital reader, I'm sure if you could back up your collection to a harddrive, it would go towards helping. Similar how you have all your itunes music even if apple were to go under.

    I know I'd buy more digital comics if everything older than say, i dunno, 5 years was 99 cents for individual issues. That may screw with their "sales" but i don't really know the math if that would create constant sales rather than people waiting for the weekly sales.
    Reading: All New X-men, Batman, Cable+X-force, Harley Quinn, Morning Glories, Sex, Sexy Criminals, Uncanny X-men, Walking Dead, X-men
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  12. #57
    Tai'shar Manetheren Jadenewt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kakitamike View Post
    One complaint I see from most die-hard print readers is that they don't own their digital comic. While it doesn't really bug me as a digital reader, I'm sure if you could back up your collection to a harddrive, it would go towards helping. Similar how you have all your itunes music even if apple were to go under.

    I know I'd buy more digital comics if everything older than say, i dunno, 5 years was 99 cents for individual issues. That may screw with their "sales" but i don't really know the math if that would create constant sales rather than people waiting for the weekly sales.
    Yes I would love if Legion of Super Heroes and a few other older series were available to buy digitally. As it is there are many incomplete runs and just one or two issues here and there that are floating around waiting to be completed.
    D-Deadman! You killed Deadman!!

  13. #58
    Junior Member Darknet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinitEEntropy View Post
    Thats why they have not fully embraced the idea of digital yet.
    But then I don't get why they don't encourage their own apps. Back out of Comixology and make people buy from your own (though I would hate that because I love all my comics being in one spot). Because I'll tell you, Marvel and DC's apps are not bad at all, unlike the Dark Horse one.

  14. #59
    Veteran Member glennsim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darknet View Post
    But then I don't get why they don't encourage their own apps. Back out of Comixology and make people buy from your own (though I would hate that because I love all my comics being in one spot). Because I'll tell you, Marvel and DC's apps are not bad at all, unlike the Dark Horse one.
    I think when you buy from the DC comics app, you are not cutting Comixology out. The DC app is just the Comixology app with different graphics and the limitation of only seeing/buying DC comics. Rather like the Facebook app doesn't really do anything that going to Facebook in the browser doesn't do, but it just rearranges it a bit.

    According to this article http://www.jimzub.com/?p=2066 (which is the one I really should reference rather than the reblogged version I have previously), the only thing that changes the formula is if you buy directly from Comixology through the Web site because if you're not using an app then ITunes/Google doesn't get a cut. But that would involve training people to take different/extra steps.

    At the end of the day, the only way for them to make money is to buy and host their own servers, and it would take a LONG time for them to recoup the investment there. I don't see them doing that, any more than I would see them purchasing their own trucks and warehouses to do the physical distribution.
    Last edited by glennsim; 01-23-2013 at 10:33 AM.
    The DC relaunch was successful and was executed in what was most likely the best way it could given restrictions we wouldn't know about. No, your idea wouldn't have worked. Now move on.

  15. #60
    Tai'shar Manetheren Jadenewt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glennsim View Post
    I think when you buy from the DC comics app, you are not cutting Comixology out. The DC app is just the Comixology app with different graphics and the limitation of only seeing/buying DC comics. Rather like the Facebook app doesn't really do anything that going to Facebook in the browser doesn't do, but it just rearranges it a bit.

    According to this article http://www.jimzub.com/?p=2066 (which is the one I really should reference rather than the reblogged version I have previously), the only thing that changes the formula is if you buy directly from Comixology through the Web site because if you're not using an app then ITunes/Google doesn't get a cut. But that would involve training people to take different/extra steps.

    At the end of the day, the only way for them to make money is to buy and host their own servers, and it would take a LONG time for them to recoup the investment there. I don't see them doing that, any more than I would see them purchasing their own trucks and warehouses to do the physical distribution.
    Also there is the fact that most people aren't going to want to go to several sites to buy their books.
    D-Deadman! You killed Deadman!!

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