Batwoman #16 Preview/Discussion

[OberonOsiris]

As with most previous posters, I really enjoyed this issue. Was entertaining and enlightening to get into the various character's heads...I particularly enjoyed the brief moments spent with Bette and Chase. Also enjoyed the backstory with medusa and ceta and the olympians.

I am looking forward to this arc finally being over, however (although I will sorely miss Wonder Woman...she's been so awesome in this team-up, and I'd *love* to see her and Kate interacting in a non-crisis situation...like just hanging out and having beers, trading war stories, etc.)

I was pretty sure Maggie was going to discover Kate is Batwoman by the end of this arc, but I agree with SS888 above that I'm not so sure anymore. It does seem like there's a lot left to cover with just one more issue. Can't wait for the conclusion!

I haven't read the latest issue, but my take is that if Maggie hasn't figured it out, Kate is ready to tell her.

[OberonOsiris]

Wow, it was really cool when Batgirl took out Mirror.....oh wait.... Glad to see the kid back on her feet though.

The new costume reminds me of the current Ms. Marvel when she has her helmet on. But I agree with what someone else said, it comes across as a cross between Nightwing and Wonder Woman when she's in her full armor.

I hope when Williams is done with the art all that screwy paneling will go with him. With more regular paneling I might give the book another shot.

I think I said that; sorta like WW and NW, her new costume. Great Goddess that art is beautiful. I suppose I could go either way with paneling, but some issues without would be good for a change. Now that I've seen more of the costume with the panel you gave, I do see the Captain Marvel similarity too.

I'm not sure what your point means, about Batgirl and the Mirror. As you probably know, I'm one of those who likes Bette *and* Barbara Gordon. I wasn't around for the Bat(-)girls who came after, so they don't have any resonance for me.

[batGRRRl4ever]

I'm not sure what your point means, about Batgirl and the Mirror. As you probably know, I'm one of those who likes Bette *and* Barbara Gordon.

It's no one over the other snark, I was actually noticing the strong similarity to the incident between Batgirl and Mirror in the first four issues of her book there. In issue #4 she came down from above almost exactly like Flamebird did in the first panel on the left. Both characters also commented on their foes being incredibly fast for their size, and both characters got severe punches in the stomach that almost knocked them out from the pain. I don't know if Williams was channeling Simone's work there, but on the surface at least, there are some similarities between the two situations. It's more of a comment on the writer than anything else, as I am seriously contemplating picking this title back up.

[Jeff Brady]

If the book were to initiate some more standard paneling on the comic, I might be tempted to pick up an issue.

With more regular paneling I might give the book another shot.

You should just put that in your signature, as it comes up in every Batwoman thread (that has JHW3 on art, anyway).

[AtlAggie]

I haven't read the latest issue, but my take is that if Maggie hasn't figured it out, Kate is ready to tell her.

I'd love it if she did...I'd prefer Kate to voluntarily "come clean" as opposed to Maggie just discovering it. And I do agree that there have been hints that Kate may be ready to take that plunge. Still, don't know if they can cram that, plus the resolution of the medusa conflict & saving the children (plus everything else), into the next issue. Can't wait to find out!

[maxpower00044]

More traditional paneling over the awesomeness of JHWIII's inspiring, draw dropping layouts? Is this bizarro land? If anything, more people need to be stealing pages out of JHWIII's book (pun intended)!

[JasonTodd428]

I'd love it if she did...I'd prefer Kate to voluntarily "come clean" as opposed to Maggie just discovering it. And I do agree that there have been hints that Kate may be ready to take that plunge. Still, don't know if they can cram that, plus the resolution of the medusa conflict & saving the children (plus everything else), into the next issue. Can't wait to find out!

I would prefer that Kate just come clean as well and I've had the feeling that she's been wanting to tell Maggie for awhile but I'm not sure when she will have the time to do so next issue myself. So much to do and so little pages in which to do it. How are they gonna fit that in on top of everything else? Should be interesting.

[OberonOsiris]

It's no one over the other snark, I was actually noticing the strong similarity to the incident between Batgirl and Mirror in the first four issues of her book there. In issue #4 she came down from above almost exactly like Flamebird did in the first panel on the left. Both characters also commented on their foes being incredibly fast for their size, and both characters got severe punches in the stomach that almost knocked them out from the pain. I don't know if Williams was channeling Simone's work there, but on the surface at least, there are some similarities between the two situations. It's more of a comment on the writer than anything else, as I am seriously contemplating picking this title back up.

And I'm not the one to nitpick with you, because I love your spirited passion for Barbara. I guess I should reread the Mirror issues; I actually don't recall that. As I mentioned I did stop with Batgirl, but do pick up the occasional one. Mostly a question of finance for me.

[Brave Sir Robbin]

More traditional paneling over the awesomeness of JHWIII's inspiring, draw dropping layouts? Is this bizarro land? If anything, more people need to be stealing pages out of JHWIII's book (pun intended)!

I have no problem in the book tightening up the layouts so that it does not overwhelm the story. This book teeters on the brink of being too artistically masturbatory. A comic should be an illustration of a story. Williams can go wild with that, but when it starts to get so you lose track of the story or you get tired of trying to piece it out, you have, as the English say, lost the plot.

[Brave Sir Robbin]

It's no one over the other snark, I was actually noticing the strong similarity to the incident between Batgirl and Mirror in the first four issues of her book there. In issue #4 she came down from above almost exactly like Flamebird did in the first panel on the left. Both characters also commented on their foes being incredibly fast for their size, and both characters got severe punches in the stomach that almost knocked them out from the pain. I don't know if Williams was channeling Simone's work there, but on the surface at least, there are some similarities between the two situations. It's more of a comment on the writer than anything else, as I am seriously contemplating picking this title back up.

Simone is a MUCH better writer on the whole. Simone's pacing is perfect and her ability to, as you have pointed out, never throw anything away but have it all perfectly work together, is fantastic. Her characters are also more straight forward and she builds them by having them react to the plot and each other. They grow through the events and their interactions. It is always well done.

So far, the Batwoman team is at their best when giving you the interior world of the characters and and their own reactions to the events and other characters. The dialogue itself between characters is does not move the story as much and sort of exists outside the inner world. The team really excels at using poetic imagery for Kate's musings on the world and the events. They have been just killling it with that. Her characters' inner thoughts are more like her dialogue; to the point, thoughtful, intelligent, consistent with the story, but not beautiful.

[OberonOsiris]

Simone is a MUCH better writer on the whole. Simone's pacing is perfect and her ability to, as you have pointed out, never throw anything away but have it all perfectly work together, is fantastic. Her characters are also more straight forward and she builds them by having them react to the plot and each other. They grow through the events and their interactions. It is always well done.

So far, the Batwoman team is at their best when giving you the interior world of the characters and and their own reactions to the events and other characters. The dialogue itself between characters is does not move the story as much and sort of exists outside the inner world. The team really excels at using poetic imagery for Kate's musings on the world and the events. They have been just killling it with that. Her characters' inner thoughts are more like her dialogue; to the point, thoughtful, intelligent, consistent with the story, but not beautiful.

I admit to not being very familiar with the range of Simone's writing but you seem to have contrasted the difference between Batgirl and Batwoman pretty well. I think the way you characterize Batwoman's writing and plotting reflects my own values in terms of which comic I appreciate more.
It was very hard to give up regular reading of Batgirl (and some of the other Bat titles I was reading in the nu52), but I could never give up Batwoman.

[dc8]

I just staring reading batwoman and loved it can't wait to catch up with trades. the arts just amazing!

[OberonOsiris]

I just staring reading batwoman and loved it can't wait to catch up with trades. the arts just amazing!

You should definitely try to get ahold of "Elegy", from 2 or 3 years ago. It is the best!

[dc8]

I just staring reading batwoman and loved it can't wait to catch up with trades. the arts just amazing!

You should definitely try to get ahold of "Elegy", from 2 or 3 years ago. It is the best!

oh thanks for the recommendation, i see JHWIII is also the artist for this, i'll definitely pick up when i can.

[OberonOsiris]

I would have to say that I would read Batwoman with almost any artist; I love the character, the book that much. I think I fell in love with her too, because of Elegy as it detailed her past so well, including her challenge as a lesbian in the Military. Sadly, as the years pass and we have to adjust the sliding time-line, this fact may have to alter.
I also prefer Jake's portrayal more in Elegy, however, after that story his status with his daughter changed to what it currently is.
I don't know if Elegy was the first time that Bette appeared (and is revealed to be Kate's cousin), but all of these parts of Elegy - as well as the menace of "Alice" fit perfectly. Without reading Batwoman's introduction a few years before in the 52 weekly thing, I felt that I really had a lot of info about her.