Is that really 'it' with regards to 'The Secret' the Joker knows?

[adkal]

That, before there was ever a Robin or a Batgirl, the Joker discovered the Cave and, through some contrivances and avoidance of security, that under the cape and cowl of The Batman was Bruce Wayne? That Batman knew this but was in denial and never even whispered a word of it to anyone (until the Bat-Family held their intervention in the Cave) thereby endangering everyone from the moment they became part of his war?

[melkorjunior]

I really hope not. The only thing keeping me interested in this story is the notion that this secret will be of the "Bruce has been a manipulating bastard" variety and will cause the "family" to finally abandon him. Outside of killing characters--which, let's face it, has been a case of boy cries wolf in comics for decades now--creating a real rift between the characters based on actual character motivations rather than contrived plot devices is about the only meaningful change a writer can bring to an A-list superhero title these days. I don't want to see Alfred die because he'll just be brought back eventually. I want to see these characters actually evolve. And it would also be nice to jettison the family and allow Batman comics to work without half a dozen sidekicks horning in on the story.

Here's a question: how many of the best all-time Batman stories have been Batman solo? Lots, I think.

[theDarkJAww13]

That's most likely it. It's nothing too drawn out which I can't stress enough isn't a bad thing. Bruce has always been a somewhat unstable, somewhat paranoid person. Though I agree it's a little nonsensical that he'd never tell ANYONE the Joker might know who he is - it's not completely out of the realm of possibility for this guy.

Like melk said, this causes for some actual character development and makes sense when taking the "Death of the Family" theme into account. Especially if Alfred is dead, it'd cause an even greater distance between them all. I, for one, wouldn't miss Alfred. I feel he could stay gone from the comics for a good long while and it would only lead to newer situations. Let's face it, the spectrum of story-telling options for Alfred have been stressed to the umpteenth degree since the creation of Batman. Give the character some rest. Sure he'll be brought back eventually - but I feel like DC wouldn't break a sweat about keeping him out of continuity for a long time. Plus, the dude's been an old man forever, he has to go sometime.

BUT adkal, I notice you're judgmental about this being "it" in the sense that Joker's secret is that he knew who Bruce was and by process of elimination figured most of the others out. I'm just curious as to what you'd have rather he "knew?" You were clearly enticed by this "Joker knows something" storyline or else you wouldn't be upset enough to post a thread about the reveal - so again what would you have done? Not trying to be snarky or whatever, just legitimately wondering why you view this as such a bad revelation?

[carabas]

It's really becoming very difficult to even consider buying any DC book if this is the kind of story they put out in their flagship book.

[smokeysabear]

It's really becoming very difficult to even consider buying any DC book if this is the kind of story they put out in their flagship book.

I'll admit, my DC pull list has gotten shorter and shorter as the months have gone by. Yet my DC back catalog has grown...

I'm not one of those "bring back the old universe" people, I just recognize quality stories when I see them, and I'm seeing less and less of them come from DC anymore.

As far as this story goes? It's had it's moments, yet I find myself growing somewhat tired of Snyder's schtick. That Capullo is still a beast though.

[carabas]

I'm not one of those "bring back the old universe" people, I just recognize quality stories when I see them, and I'm seeing less and less of them come from DC anymore.

The old universe was even worse. It had stuff like Cry For Justice and Countdown and Amazons Attack in it.

[The Greatest Hero]

We must not forget Joker's little book. I think whatever "secret" there is will be revealed once Bruce gets his hands on it.

But I'm guessing it will go like this....

--

Batman: "It's over. *sigh* It's finally over.."
Nightwing: "Batman, I found this" *holding Joker's red book* "The Joker said this was like his autobiography. Everything about you and he is written down in here. It's his plan and how he knows everything about us." *hands it to Batman*
*Batman stares at it dramatically then opens it*
Batman: "..... What the hell?"
Batgirl: "What is it, Bruce?"
*Batman opens to the first page, then flips the pages fast and it's a drawn cartoon of the Joker and Batman getting married, then Batman carries Joker off to the Batwing and they fly off with the Jet saying "Just Married" on the back*

[stk]

I really hope not. The only thing keeping me interested in this story is the notion that this secret will be of the "Bruce has been a manipulating bastard" variety and will cause the "family" to finally abandon him.

That will cause me to abandon Batman as well, if that turns out to be the case.

[booyah]

More likely:

Batman: "It's over. *sigh* It's finally over.."
Nightwing: "Batman, I found this" *holding Joker's red book* "The Joker said this was like his autobiography. Everything about you and he is written down in here. It's his plan and how he knows everything about us." *hands it to Batman*
*Batman stares at it dramatically*
Batman destroys book, and we're left with an anti-ending

[Vil_Dee]

They had some psychiatrist in Batgirl reading his book and it didn't look like she could read it because of his crazy handwriting. I imagine Bats being obsessed with it, trying for the rest of his life to figure out what it says, meanwhile it turns out it's just his favorite cornbread recipe.

[The Greatest Hero]

more likely:

Batman: "it's over. *sigh* it's finally over.."
nightwing: "batman, i found this" *holding joker's red book* "the joker said this was like his autobiography. Everything about you and he is written down in here. It's his plan and how he knows everything about us." *hands it to batman*
*batman stares at it dramatically*
batman destroys book, and we're left with an anti-ending

Mine was better!

[The Greatest Hero]

More likely:

Batman: "It's over. *sigh* It's finally over.."
Nightwing: "Batman, I found this" *holding Joker's red book* "The Joker said this was like his autobiography. Everything about you and he is written down in here. It's his plan and how he knows everything about us." *hands it to Batman*
*Batman stares at it dramatically*
Batman: "It's better we don't know." *Stares out at Gotham skyline.*

Fixed. Now it sounds like something Snyder would really write..

[adkal]

BUT adkal, I notice you're judgmental about this being "it"

You think I'm being excessively critical about it?

in the sense that Joker's secret is that he knew who Bruce was and by process of elimination figured most of the others out.

As I've said before in other threads since the 'reveal', merely being in the cave is not enough to deduce that Batman is Bruce Wayne. Now, others have put forward the suggestion that 'he could have gone up the stairs and into the manor', coupling that with the 'he got around the security' and, frankly, adding further contrivances to the point that, basically, there's no way Bruce could rightfully deny that the Joker had ever been in there.

Why on Earth would Bruce be 'okay' with Ra's, Bane, Talia, Hugo and so on all know that he's Bruce Wayne but place abject denial on the possibility of the Joker knowing.

Furthermore, why would Bruce have a replica of the card made and hang it up in the cave as a memento?

(Oh, and that the Joker caught and skinned a bat in the cave and used the skin to bind and cover a little book...)

I'm just curious as to what you'd have rather he "knew?" You were clearly enticed by this "Joker knows something" storyline or else you wouldn't be upset enough to post a thread about the reveal - so again what would you have done? Not trying to be snarky or whatever, just legitimately wondering why you view this as such a bad revelation?

I'm not upset, I just want 'more'. We know, for example, that the encounter between Bruce Wayne and the Joker (sorry, 'the Red Hood'), the encounter that will destroy the brownstone Bruce worked out of before he created the persona of The Batman, will be told soon (relatively speaking), so, in my opinion, tying in to that would have worked a whole lot better than 'the Joker had some sort of breathing apparatus on, fixed himself to the underside of the Bat-boat, clung on for dear life as the boat sped through the waters, was able to determine the correct exit route (or, heck, found another exit from the labyrinth that is the cave network), left his 'calling card' in the water which Batman conveniently found (no current having an adverse effect on that plan), didn't bother mentioning it for 5 or 6 years and then, out of the blue, told Gordon that Batman has the 'calling card' and, in doing so, giving Bruce a noogie and chanting 'I know your seeecret'. (and, yes, I know that's a long sentence )

But, no, I'm not 'upset', I just wanted something more from all this.

*shrug*

[adkal]

Fixed. Now it sounds like something Snyder would really write..

Psst, you missed the techno-contact lens bit...otherwise it's just a generic stare...

[theDarkJAww13]

@adkal hey man, i wasn't saying you were overly critical or calling you out on your viewpoints. As I mentioned in my initial post, I was simply genuinely curious as to what you were expecting. I can see now where you're coming from - but maybe in that follow up to the 0 issue, we'll see WHY it would effect Bruce so much that Joker knows. Maybe Joker is somebody Bruce simply didn't want any part of again after that encounter - and finding the Joker card only cemented that they would be seeing a lot more of each other. A sort of dark foreshadowing that Bruce had been trying to keep tucked away. It could be entirely possible that by the end of this story we'll see exactly why Bruce wouldn't want Joker of all people knowing who he was.

The card could be blown up and hung in the cave for the same reason Bruce keeps Jason's Robin suit - to remind him of a failure. Keep him on edge. If Joker's going to be a part of his life, he's going to be completely aware of it at all times. As for how Joker got into the cave - I agree if that's the story they're sticking with, it's a little bit of a stretch. But even still, as I said, there could be some other swerve on how the card got there. To answer your initial question, maybe it ISN'T it. There's still a bit more of the story to come. Though only one issue, if he feels like it, I feel Snyder could still tie things up nicely.