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  1. #31
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    Deep_Sleeper
    yeah, fantasy genre always had the problem of you either having a predefined world where your rely of the previous knowledge of the reader, or having to rely to the overused gimmick of someone from earth coming to the other world (which can be awesome when done well)

    ravine is a full fledged fantasy, readers will greatly benefit from rereads once the issues stockpile to fully appreciate just how many little details there are hidden in the story
    and it will have what any fantasy book worth its time has.. a pagecount. first story when done will be 12 issues which will be allmost two thousand pages.

    it seems alot.. but i am a bit of a weirdo. hell in the last 11 years i have discarded over 600 pages as my skills progressed...





    drakeon
    yeah, emotions of the characters are a fairly recent thing in my repertoire. back in my early witchblade days i would often get a script which would say, dialogue yet to come... i interpreted that as draw a blank expression XD, with time i learned better. and my teamwork with ron was better for it


    Melanieshaman
    yeah XD that seems to be the ongoing theme with people who read it XD
    i am an evil man, i i had people thinking... ooh look comic about pervy sex.. and then BAM ADDICTIVE CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT IN YOUR FACE MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH.... gets them every time XD

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by nebezial View Post
    Melanieshaman
    yeah XD that seems to be the ongoing theme with people who read it XD
    i am an evil man, i i had people thinking... ooh look comic about pervy sex.. and then BAM ADDICTIVE CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT IN YOUR FACE MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH.... gets them every time XD
    While I most certainly appreciate the sexy girl/girl stuff..it truly is the deep character development that has me waiting with baited breath for the next installment. I wish I could have captured this type of character development in my graphic novel :( but it IS inspiring.

  3. #33
    Senior Member UnravThreads's Avatar
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    I'm glad to say I've already put my copy on order.

    Really looking forward to this, although I'm a little concerned by the amount of "boob armour" there is, although on closer inspection you have subverted that slightly.

    Either way, bring on Ravine!

  4. #34
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    amount...of boob armour XD. it is a light combat fitted armor which lynn wears only till issue 3....and then puts on a heavy winter armor ....(cause..yknow..winter is coming XD)

    besides delphi, you wont be seeing much skin in this comic as i am not doing this for titillation.

  5. #35
    Senior Member UnravThreads's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebezial View Post
    amount...of boob armour XD. it is a light combat fitted armor which lynn wears only till issue 3....and then puts on a heavy winter armor ....(cause..yknow..winter is coming XD)

    besides delphi, you wont be seeing much skin in this comic as i am not doing this for titillation.
    Oh, excellent. I hope you're not offended when I say your background (i.e. works you've done in the past) leave me a little unsure what to expect in that regard, with Witchblade and similar titles often being rather... excessive in that regard. But I'm truly comforted to see that you're aware of such things and won't be pandering to it (too much, at any rate).

    So that's a thumbs up from me, for what little it counts.

  6. #36
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    no worries, but i am curious, from your fear, i am inclined to assume you havent really read ron's and my witchblade run? i am not a fan of metal bikinis, when i drew witchblade it was a full armor combined with a category 5 force of nature badassery.

    see when it comes to sexuality and sexyness in comics, like in movies i feel it serves it's purpose best when earned. so it is not my primary concern to make characters sexy when fighhting a massive threat

    now for some armor examples from ravine, you ahve i presume seen lynn's initial dragoon armor. it is a lightened version of a standard dregyan light battlearmor. lightened because it used to have additional plating...its a story element so i wont go deeper into it.

    this is what she wears from issue 3 onwards
    http://nebezial.deviantart.com/art/r...10002183&qo=27
    http://nebezial.deviantart.com/art/r...10002183&qo=26
    and here is the original shot of the model of the armor i built in 3d. http://nebezial.deviantart.com/art/r...10002183&qo=28


    arianna for instance usually wears this armor and is very reluctant to show her skin
    http://nebezial.deviantart.com/art/c...asar-133822743
    and here is why
    http://nebezial.deviantart.com/art/r...10002183&qo=33


    and some more examples. reson why i am showing these is because i know how female characters have been treated generally in fantasy comics. hell there are hundreds of jokes based on the skimpyness of female armor in fantasy comics and games

    ravine does not rely on that

    http://nebezial.deviantart.com/art/r...10002183&qo=63
    http://nebezial.deviantart.com/art/r...0002183&qo=110
    http://nebezial.deviantart.com/art/r...10002183&qo=14

    see thing is, if i will handle sexuality and sexyness in comics i will do it right, i have a comic about that , it is called sunstone. ravine is an epic fantasy so my motivations in ravine are of a quite different nature :)

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebezial View Post
    no worries, but i am curious, from your fear, i am inclined to assume you havent really read ron's and my witchblade run? i am not a fan of metal bikinis, when i drew witchblade it was a full armor combined with a category 5 force of nature badassery.
    I haven't really read much Witchblade, so I'm perhaps tarring you with the same brush unfairly. I just know that in the majority of covers, interiors and marketing, she's often drawn in skimpy armour with a large bust.

    Quote Originally Posted by nebezial View Post
    and some more examples. reson why i am showing these is because i know how female characters have been treated generally in fantasy comics. hell there are hundreds of jokes based on the skimpyness of female armor in fantasy comics and games

    ravine does not rely on that
    As you've gone out of your way to prove. And that is why I think I'll be a Ravine buyer until the end :)

  8. #38
    Junior Member Big_H's Avatar
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    As some one who also has an epic fantasy story rolling around in their head, I'm looking forward this. I also enjoyed Stjepan's work on Radical's Aladdin. I like the OGN format as well.

  9. #39
    Askani'son drakeon's Avatar
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    As long as there is a good story is what I always say. Women have sexuality and most girls I know like to flaunt it, so it sure as heck doesnt bother me. In fact, my sister in law's fave comic books are things like Fathom and Soulfire, which has girls in nothing but skimpy bikini's. It makes girls feel empowered and sexy so it does have its place.

    I personally enjoy strong female characters both in what I read and what I write. As long as they arent ditzy bimbos that is.

    As for Witchblade, love her in the jeans rather than the whole artifact blows off her costume thing lol

  10. #40
    New Member Ayra's Avatar
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    I tend to be cautiously pessimistic about comics. This way, if a comic I buy ends up being average, I'm not disapointed. If it's unexpectedly fun, it's an enjoyable surprise. I admit I'm quite new to the comics scene, but it's a viewpoint that has served me well so far.

    However, I can't help myself from being absolutely psyched about "Ravine" and nearly counting the days until it's released. I'm trying without success to restrain myself from reading every single preview about it. It's probably not a good idea to look foward to it so much, but I just can't help myself. Why?

    Well, two reasons mainly:


    1- Angelus is my favorite comic ever. I admit it: I didn't know anything about it and I bought it just because it had an amazingly beautiful angel warrior on the cover. Everything about this comic absolutely blew my mind. The sweeping beautiful art on each page, the amazingly expressive characters, the battle scenes, the dialogs, the story itself... I've read it 4 times so far and it keeps amazing me each time. How I wish there were more than 1 book for Angelus... But I'm extremely thankful for the one we did have.

    Ravine is by the same authors (More Stjepan and less Ron in this one, but still same people involved) and the setting is one I like more (I prefer fantasy or sci-fi to current day). Both these things make me extremely hopeful about Ravine. I'm not expecting to like Ravine quite as much: Angelus had a few things that resonated very much with me (Dani's relationship with Finch, the scenes with her compationate father, angels, ect)... But if I like Ravine anywhere close to Angelus, it'll be an awesome buy and I'll be eagerly getting every single volume.


    2- Artesia. That is the one comic beside Angelus that absolutely floored me. In the comic world, it's simply unique. I've never read anything like it before or since, and I don't believe that there's anything else like it anywhere (Please inform me if there's more). It creates it's own very deep fantasy world with living characters, intrigues and mythos. It has believable political structures with countries and organizations that go far beyond "Good country vs evil country". It's the only comic I've ever read where I kept referencing to the maps in order to trace the development of a war. It's an absolute masterpiece in my opinion (It's still officially

    When I read those Ravine previews, I keep seeing all those elements that made me like Artesia so much. A very developed world, multiple organizations, a believeable living fantasy world that doesn't simply turn around a few characters. Fantasy comics in general are exceedingly rare, those that go beyond a "strict minimum" approach even more so. Ravine definitively seems to go beyond that. I'm not expecting Artesia 2.0: I know that Ravine is more high fantasy setting (Dragons everywhere, fireballs, ect), I know that Ravine won't go to the depth that Artesia does politically (Vassal states, rulership recognition by peers, ect) and I know that it will likely be more "adventure" based... Different, but just as enjoyable.


    Angelus made me realize just how great Stjepan and Ron are at making comics. Artesia made me realize just how much I enjoy a comic that features a deep, cohesive fantasy world. Ravine combines both those things, and it makes it exceedingly hard not to be overly hyped by it.

    About the whole sexy armor thing... I'm personally pretty ambivalent to it. After all, Queen Sonja vol 1 is the first comic I've ever bought and I liked it quite a bit so I definitively don't mind the whole sexy armor thing. I don't mind full-coverage armor either: Dani's Angelus armor is wonderful, and Arianna's armor shown in post #36 is amazing. Either's fine by me as long as the character wearing the armor (or lack of armor) is interesting :)

  11. #41
    Senior Member UnravThreads's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drakeon View Post
    As long as there is a good story is what I always say. Women have sexuality and most girls I know like to flaunt it, so it sure as heck doesnt bother me. In fact, my sister in law's fave comic books are things like Fathom and Soulfire, which has girls in nothing but skimpy bikini's. It makes girls feel empowered and sexy so it does have its place.
    Does it? Does it really? I think you'll find there's as many women who feel it's sexist, pointless and panders to the streotypical teen male demographic (i.e. sell a comic with boobs), and in fact there's a growing resistance from male writers too, including Peter V. Brett who has previously done Red Sonja: Blue and the upcoming Red Sonja: Unchained, in which she won't actually be wearing her chainmail bikini.

    A good story in a comic is worthless if the art is poor, and good art is worthless if the writing is poor.

  12. #42
    Senior Member Arvandor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ayra View Post
    2- Artesia. That is the one comic beside Angelus that absolutely floored me. In the comic world, it's simply unique. I've never read anything like it before or since, and I don't believe that there's anything else like it anywhere (Please inform me if there's more). It creates it's own very deep fantasy world with living characters, intrigues and mythos. It has believable political structures with countries and organizations that go far beyond "Good country vs evil country". It's the only comic I've ever read where I kept referencing to the maps in order to trace the development of a war. It's an absolute masterpiece in my opinion
    I know exactly how you feel. Artesia was indeed a brilliant work of art. But Smylie was obviously too ambitious, and bit off more than he could chew. Which is why it will never be finished.

    Epic fantasies such as Ravine are so rare, exactly because of the commitment required to make it work. Sejic is one of the very few artists I believe is capable of handling it.

    If you can, and you haven't read it, you really should try and track down Sojourn, by Ron Marz and Greg Land, from the defunct publisher CrossGen. It was also never finished, but good while it lasted.
    virtue untested is innocence.
    When you choose the lesser of two evils, always remember it is still an evil.

  13. #43
    Senior Member Arvandor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnravThreads View Post
    Does it? Does it really? I think you'll find there's as many women who feel it's sexist, pointless and panders to the streotypical teen male demographic (i.e. sell a comic with boobs), and in fact there's a growing resistance from male writers too, including Peter V. Brett who has previously done Red Sonja: Blue and the upcoming Red Sonja: Unchained, in which she won't actually be wearing her chainmail bikini.
    You answered your own point there. As many women. Not more. Not less. But equally as many find it sexist as find it sexy. Which pretty much cancels it out.

    As we all agree, it's the story and characters that count. Sexiness neither adds to, nor subtracts from it. So it's always been a question of whether to ask why do it, or to ask why not?
    virtue untested is innocence.
    When you choose the lesser of two evils, always remember it is still an evil.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arvandor View Post
    You answered your own point there. As many women. Not more. Not less. But equally as many find it sexist as find it sexy. Which pretty much cancels it out.

    As we all agree, it's the story and characters that count. Sexiness neither adds to, nor subtracts from it. So it's always been a question of whether to ask why do it, or to ask why not?
    No, it doesn't cancel out. Just because millions of women bought 50 Shades of Grey or Twilight, it doesn't mean they're suddenly less problematic. When you consider that comics are still very hostile towards women, in terms of rarely being marketed towards them, being created by them or - well - pretty much in every regard, it doesn't mean that some people finding "empowerment" from Fathom nullifies the whole system. Because, really, it doesn't. It's still aimed at a male audience and marketed with overt sexuality.

    As Mr(?) Sejic said earlier, sexuality has its place. That's something we can all agree on. Now, if that sexuality was limited to a few titles like Vampirella, some of Aspen's stuff and so on, and was balanced by titles depicting males in overtly sexualised costumes and roles then there wouldn't be an issue. But that's not what happens. What happens is females are typically depicted as over-sexualised, attractive, in revealing (by tightness or otherwise) costumes/clothes and so on, not to mention their figures tending towards the ideal (i.e. slim and busty). This happens whether you're reading Lady Death or watching X-Men: First Class. It might be subtle, but it's almost always there.

    Of course, you have the idealised figure aspect with regards to men, too. Often men in comics - particularly superhero comics - are depicted as very muscular and handsome. If not, then they'll be of an average, but slim, build and still handsome in some way. But if they're evil? Nah, ugly, old or damaged. Penguin, Two-Face, Magneto, etc. But if the evil person is female? Attractive, almost without fail.

    And that's why I think Mr(?) Sejic's Ravine will be awesome. He's got a nice mix of characters, he's taken the majority of sexualisation out of the equation, and it's just going to rock based on that alone.

  15. #45
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    my opinion on sexuality was always a simple one. it needs to serve the story above all.

    it works best when earned. a character constantly prancing around in the sexyest outfits available just starts feeling... samey. beauty is always in the contrast. character who dresses regularly, has bad hair days, is imperfect will stun the reader when he or she dresses up and actually tries to look atractive

    for instance closest i come to sexual depiction of a woman in ravine is with delphi. she walks around practically naked from time to time. now without a context you would think, look at this pointless titillation.

    but when the context is explained you see the reasoning is quite valid. (im not gonna spoil it here as it is an important story element about both her and nebezial)

    ( although the fact that she is in her design basically Medusa.. and her partner Nebezial has dragontails instead of legs.. scares the living crap out of me as far as the rule 34 goes...or the rule that says if it exists there is a porn of it) but you know.. that is how it is supposed to be

    as a creator my duty is to tell the story, and if someone wants a porn made out of it, they can do it themselves.

    hell even my actual comic about sexuality and relationships, sunstone.. a comic that is actually about sexuality, sexual deviancy , sex, and how it affects relationships...is bloody character driven XD and never goes into all out hardcore territory no matter how much some wished for it

    reason for not going there is simple. it is not what i am telling the story about

    to me sexuality is a special element to any story that should be there only if the characters feel it should be there. i wont make them do things they don't want to....
    yeah... they talk to me XD

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