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  1. #16
    Your Ice Cream Man Captain Morgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beadle View Post
    Got to say I think Supergirl's position in this gauntlet is a little weird. With Clark, Diana, Kyle and Billy arriving in the four slots before her, if they aren't getting the job done between them, I don't see that she's going to make much difference.
    She adds another set of heat vision, is the big thing, and well, another class 100 to try and sneak some shots in.

    Anyway, as for Post-Crisis Clark, I am going to agree he was well short of Nu Clark. Post-Crisis I view him as being able to move the moon by himself, and the Earth with help, but he usually gets an assist from a GL to do it, who have know to do such things on their own anyway, so the feat isn't entirely clean. His history with celestial bodies has happened a bunch:

    The Moon
    -Electro Clark used a magnetic trick to keep it up. Irrelevant.
    -JLA/Titans crossover, the moon gets hijacked by weird alien stuff, and the JLA and company move it. While the moon seemed to be 2 or 3 times its normal size with all the alien stuff stuck to it, this does seem to be the lowest showing for Superman and crew.
    - JLA story line, moon begins to fall towards the Earth. Kyle and Clark hold it up more or less indefinitely without issue, apparently starting out each holding a hide and then taking turns so the other could get a break.
    - JLA: Terror Incognito, Clark, Diana, and Kyle treat the moon like a yo-yo, yanking it into Earth's atmosphere and then back out again and back in place, all in the space of a couple of seconds. It's actually a pretty insane showing. Either his top showing, or number 2.

    The Earth:
    -JLA Obsidian Age, Clark, Diana, and J'onn struggle to keep the Earth from flying out of orbit due massive oceanic disturbances. They might not have pulled this off, but they were saved at the last minute by Kyle, who pretty casually corrects the Earths orbit.
    -JLA: Classified story line featuring the villain Starbreaker, who was using his power to pull the Earth out of orbit. Hal makes a giant harness, Clark puts it on, they proceed to out muscle the Earth from Starbreaker. This is probably his top end thing next to the moon yo-yo.
    -Final issue of Final Crisis: Clark, a bunch of other Supermen, and some GLs move the planet. I need to recheck this for context, but I don't really think it is valid to use it try and marks Clark's strength. I mean, there are already a lot of showings of GLs, either as individuals or pairs, moving planets around. So it would be a low showing for them, at least. And it also could have been less "we need everyone to do this" and more "hey it would be easier if everyone helped out here." Also, weren't they pulling it out of some weird singularity thing Darkseid formed? Anyway, I don't think the feat is very useful for measurement purposes.

  2. #17
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    You still haven't actually answered my question: when did I bring up the Superman black hole feat that would make it something as synomous with me that you'd bring it up?

    I'm not mad or calling you out but I am a little confused as to why you brought up a feat that was dissected in a thread that I was in, and even spoke directly to you in, and threw it at me in a kind of "Ha-ha! This foils you, rapscallion!" Just seemed odd is all.

    The gears thing, as I recall, on the preceding page to Supes being shown in chains that you posted, J'onn is mindscaping his way into Mageddon and is all; "GEARS THE SIZE OF PLANETS! WHAT FORCE MOVES THEM?!" and then we see Supes in chains is pulling them.

    If you got scans, go for it. I haven't read WW3 since I was like 16 so I might be making shit up.
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  3. #18
    Elder Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Post-Crisis I view him as being able to move the moon by himself
    Ehh. His really big stuff with it barring the once involved other people.

    -Final issue of Final Crisis: Clark, a bunch of other Supermen, and some GLs move the planet. I need to recheck this for context, but I don't really think it is valid to use it try and marks Clark's strength. I mean, there are already a lot of showings of GLs, either as individuals or pairs, moving planets around. So it would be a low showing for them, at least. And it also could have been less "we need everyone to do this" and more "hey it would be easier if everyone helped out here." Also, weren't they pulling it out of some weird singularity thing Darkseid formed? Anyway, I don't think the feat is very useful for measurement purposes.
    The miracle machine had already ended that red.. whatever the fuckety fuck it was, with whatever the fucking fuck it did. At that point it was moving that world (and possibly some other ones) back into symmetry.

  4. #19
    Elder Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    The gears thing, as I recall, on the preceding page to Supes being shown in chains that you posted, J'onn is mindscaping his way into Mageddon and is all; "GEARS THE SIZE OF PLANETS! WHAT FORCE MOVES THEM?!"
    It's really not. The preceeding page is J'onn saying "A great suffering presence there chained and despairing.. mah-geh-dun.. turning the endless millwheels"

    JLA v3 40, go all LeVar Burton on that mother if you like.

    But here's a scan

    http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7561/mageddon3.png

    it would have been really funky if he had said something like that because, no planet sized gears.
    Last edited by Pendaran; 01-17-2013 at 11:01 AM.

  5. #20
    Your Ice Cream Man Captain Morgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    Ehh. His really big stuff with it barring the once involved other people.
    .
    His really big stuff with it also involved a lot more than simply moving it. There is a big difference between "moon moving" and "Moon yo-yoing." I mean, him and Kyle were not especially phased holding it up, but doing the yo-yo stunt took everything they had, along with Wonder Woman. That really just leaves the JLA/Titans crossover, which frankly looks like a low showing for all parties involved, once again.

    The miracle machine had already ended that red.. whatever the fuckety fuck it was, with whatever the fucking fuck it did. At that point it was moving that world (and possibly some other ones) back into symmetry.
    Which, once again, shouldn't have /needed/ more than Hal and Kyle. If they choose to have everyone pitch in, either for the sake of a dramatic shot, or just making it less of a pain in the ass, I mean, why not?

  6. #21
    Eleventh Reincarnation Siriel's Avatar
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    Does anyone actually understand what the hell Final Crisis was about?

    It's like that thing in the Galactus vs Composite Vampire thread where there was that Mandrakk guy and nobody could actually tell what had happened so we had no idea how powerful he was.
    Suffering is a fact of life. You survive if you find a reason to endure it.

  7. #22
    Elder Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    You still haven't actually answered my question: when did I bring up the Superman black hole feat that would make it something as synomous with me that you'd bring it up?

    I'm not mad or calling you out but I am a little confused as to why you brought up a feat that was dissected in a thread that I was in, and even spoke directly to you in, and threw it at me in a kind of "Ha-ha! This foils you, rapscallion!" Just seemed odd is all.
    I brought it up for that when you're posting something Superman has done that I find bizarre to be connected to him, it put me in mind of when you had been part of doing that before. When I go to someone "issue number" or when someone generally does on the board, there's an implicit part of that that is "I aint really believe this thing you are saying, Imma check this shit out myself", and if I'm going to say that, I may as well say why as related.

  8. #23
    Elder Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Which, once again, shouldn't have /needed/ more than Hal and Kyle.
    Just not quite related, how many times have the post crisis lanterns moved planets around anyway?

  9. #24
    Eleventh Reincarnation Siriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    I brought it up for that when you're posting something Superman has done that I find bizarre to be connected to him, it put me in mind of when you had been part of doing that before. When I go to someone "issue number" or when someone generally does on the board, there's an implicit part of that that is "I aint really believe this thing you are saying, Imma check this shit out myself", and if I'm going to say that, I may as well say why as related.
    He gets why you asked it. He's wondering about the specific instance you're referring to, when he talked about Superman surviving a black hole. He wants to know when that happened.
    Suffering is a fact of life. You survive if you find a reason to endure it.

  10. #25
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    It's really not. The preceeding page is J'onn saying "A great suffering presence there chained and despairing.. mah-geh-dun.. turning the endless millwheels"

    JLA v3 40, go all LeVar Burton on that mother if you like.

    But here's a scan

    http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7561/mageddon3.png

    it would have been really funky if he had said something like that because, no planet sized gears.
    Appareciated. Yerp, call it board meme/my old memory.

    Quote Originally Posted by Siriel View Post
    Does anyone actually understand what the hell Final Crisis was about?

    It's like that thing in the Galactus vs Composite Vampire thread where there was that Mandrakk guy and nobody could actually tell what had happened so we had no idea how powerful he was.
    I have not read it. I only heard things.
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  11. #26
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siriel View Post
    He gets why you asked it. He's wondering about the specific instance you're referring to, when he talked about Superman surviving a black hole. He wants to know when that happened.
    Exactly.

    I don't think I've referenced that feat... erm... I honestly don't know when I last referenced it. I haven't talked Superman in a feat for feat context in a while so I have no idea.

    Just struck me as an odd thing to throw out.
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  12. #27
    Status Quo Cowards Thanos Classic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    But with a few twists. One, he is going up against the Post-Crisis, Pre-Flashpoint League members in all cases. Two, he gets fully healed and rested between each match. Three, so do his opponents. So fight 1 is against Batman, fight 2 is against Aquaman AND Batman, and fight 3 is against Superman AND Batman AND Aquaman. How does this go?

    1) Batman
    2) Aquamn
    3) Superman
    4) Wonder Woman
    5) Kyle Rayner
    7) Captain Marvel
    8) Supergirl
    9) Firestorm
    10) Martian Manhunter

    How does he do?
    The only way Nu loses number 3 is if the arguably slower and physically weaker Superman can land through the ear heat vision blast.

    At number 4 WW having certain equipment might prolong things, but the problem is NU has invulnerable armor. The armor has yet to be damaged by anything, has resisted (dna splitting?), and seems capable of working as an energy shield if prepped.

    5) This probably depends on if 3 or 4 can protect 5. I'm a bit weary on the end result given I'm still not sure how to compare GL shielding to Superman punches.

    Number 7 that should be six :) Superman stops here I think. He hasn't shown any real resistance to magic. Supergirl showed some, but it doesn't place her too far above any human. Likewise, I'm not sure hand waving her feat to Supes should be done yet.

    if not here he probably makes it to MM and gets his mind torn up.
    Batman should call Superman or Wonderwoman to put an end to Crime in Gotham Forever. It'd only take about 3 minutes...

  13. #28
    Elder Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Exactly.

    I don't think I've referenced that feat... erm... I honestly don't know when I last referenced it. I haven't talked Superman in a feat for feat context in a while so I have no idea.

    Just struck me as an odd thing to throw out.
    The search function is the thing that it is, but in at least a couple of places

    http://forums.comicbookresources.com...1#post12737453

    http://forums.comicbookresources.com...1#post12991404

  14. #29
    Your Ice Cream Man Captain Morgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    Just not quite related, how many times have the post crisis lanterns moved planets around anyway?
    Let's see, off the top of my head..

    --That New Corps series where Kyle tried to get a new Corp going. Guy pulled his planet around space and into time sinks and shit.
    --Rann/Thanagar War, Kyle and Kilowag move Thanagar back into its proper orbit after SBP's shenanigans.
    --Kyle grabbed a planet's worth of space junk, carted it from the asteroid's belt, and fused it into a new Pluto. Admittedly, Pluto is tiny.
    --Kyle pretty casually netted all the pieces of a shattered planet, and refused them into a new world. This one originally supported life, so it was presumably full sized.
    -- Tom whathisname in Last Will and Testament of Hal Jordan used a ring to rebuild Oa.

    A few other things of note include Hal Jordan using planet sized constructs to try and stop something from merging the continents back together, I feel like I am forgetting a few things, but add that to the list of things involving the JLA and it's been pretty consistent, especially with their other assorted blocking novas, blowing up planets, diving into black holes, techtonic plate stitching, etc...

  15. #30
    Elder Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Just wondered, not that I don't buy it given the rings and all, though the Will and Testament thing I actually remember, technically that was pulling a bunch of crap in and restoring Oa from it, but eh, he'd have to pull in a planet worth of crap.

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