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  1. #61
    Junior Member rob fleming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ultimate scarlet spider View Post
    I wish I could read it but people keep telling me to torrent it, but I wouldn't feel right about that as I would be stealing from Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman, and the artist that they worked with. Maybe I'm just too much of a goodie goodie.
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  2. #62
    Junior Member rob fleming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike-X View Post
    Alan Moore is not the one holding this back in any way, shape or form.
    I know. My understanding is he walked away from it when Gaiman took over. But if his work were to be reprinted would Marvel not need his permission at least?
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  3. #63
    Be Right Back... Spike-X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob fleming View Post
    I know. My understanding is he walked away from it when Gaiman took over. But if his work were to be reprinted would Marvel not need his permission at least?
    I wouldn't think so.
    Christ, do I have to do all the thinking for the entire fucking Internet? - Michael P

  4. #64
    I say thee nay! icctrombone's Avatar
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    whoever owns it can reprint it. I guess the dispute is over who owns it.
    Life is what you make it.

  5. #65
    Say WHAT?!?!?!? FanboyStranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob fleming View Post
    I know. My understanding is he walked away from it when Gaiman took over. But if his work were to be reprinted would Marvel not need his permission at least?
    Moore gave all his shares in the book to Gaiman and Buckingham when he gave them the book. He's not the problem. There's a few points of disputation:

    1) Did Todd McFarlane actually acquire any rights to the book when he bought up Eclipse's surplus books?
    2) Did Dez Skinn ever actually have the rights, or were they in the hands of Mick Anglo all along? (This was the knottiest issue, but I believe progress has been made.)
    3) The status of ancillary characters like the Warpsmiths (created by Garry Leach) and Big Ben (created by Dez Skinn) who were created for other strips. The Warpsmiths are vital to Miraclemen.

    All these problems involve two different sets of copyright law in two different countries, so that's why it's been such a mess over the years.

  6. #66
    I say thee nay! icctrombone's Avatar
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    I guess it's big deal because one day it might make Marvel 200 million in a movie and no-one wants to miss out on the payday.
    Life is what you make it.

  7. #67
    Big Hairy Member JeffreyWKramer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ultimate scarlet spider View Post
    Would anyone like it if Marvelman is brought into the Marvel Universe? Like with the Marvel characters not just published by Marvel?
    Quote Originally Posted by FanboyStranger View Post
    It would be a disaster, in my opinion.
    Pretty much.

    You certainly couldn't use the character's established continuity, since Marvelman's setting at the start is clearly not the MU, and since the way he changes the world certainly doesn't reflect the MU.

    I suppose you could either declare Marvelman's reality to be an alternate universe (though it in no way resembles the MU), or you could do a 616 version of the character (which would be pointless and stupid). Best would be to just leave it as its own thing.
    Last edited by JeffreyWKramer; 02-03-2013 at 08:01 AM.
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  8. #68
    Be Right Back... Spike-X's Avatar
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    Absolutely. The only way the Moore/Gaiman stories work is if MM isn't part of a larger superhero universe.

    Marvel have enough Superman-level heroes, they don't need to go ruining this one.
    Christ, do I have to do all the thinking for the entire fucking Internet? - Michael P

  9. #69
    New Member Max Hauser's Avatar
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    The mess of who owns MM is a nightmare...

    And was probably made even messier about Alan Moore selling his copyright to Gaiman, and I read an interview where he claimed he even expressed doubt over the validity of his own ownership of MM when he sold it to Gaiman.

    And then there is the question of do Marvel own MARVELMAN and/or MIRACLEMAN? Are they different things!

    Is Miracleman copyrighted as a different thing entirely?

    Do Eclipse, that published the book (after the Warrior reprints finish) own the rights to the 18 issue or so storyline outright?

    Guys, this will get published in a collection at some time... Unfortunately, the only obstacle is paying all the lawyers to sort it out!

  10. #70
    Be Right Back... Spike-X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max Hauser View Post
    The mess of who owns MM is a nightmare...

    And was probably made even messier about Alan Moore selling his copyright to Gaiman, and I read an interview where he claimed he even expressed doubt over the validity of his own ownership of MM when he sold it to Gaiman.
    Gave, not sold.

    Quote Originally Posted by Max Hauser View Post
    And then there is the question of do Marvel own MARVELMAN and/or MIRACLEMAN? Are they different things!

    Is Miracleman copyrighted as a different thing entirely?

    Do Eclipse, that published the book (after the Warrior reprints finish) own the rights to the 18 issue or so storyline outright?

    Guys, this will get published in a collection at some time... Unfortunately, the only obstacle is paying all the lawyers to sort it out!
    I thought that was what 1602 was supposed to be for, all those years ago.
    Christ, do I have to do all the thinking for the entire fucking Internet? - Michael P

  11. #71
    New Member Max Hauser's Avatar
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    Don't know for sure about either of those points. probably best let the Great Beard tell his take on the copyright mayhem!!!

    http://www.mania.com/alan-moore-refl...le_117413.html

  12. #72
    Run Runner shaxper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max Hauser View Post
    Don't know for sure about either of those points. probably best let the Great Beard tell his take on the copyright mayhem!!!

    http://www.mania.com/alan-moore-refl...le_117413.html
    Interesting how, in 2009, all parties seemed pretty convinced things were all worked out.

    What went wrong since that time?

  13. #73
    Say WHAT?!?!?!? FanboyStranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaxper View Post
    Interesting how, in 2009, all parties seemed pretty convinced things were all worked out.

    What went wrong since that time?
    From what I understand, it was Emotiv Records asserting control over Mick Anglo's claim and Dez Skinn asserting that Mick Anglo had, in fact, sold his rights in the early '80s to Warrior. Marvel had dealt with ER for the Anglo reprint material, but it was still not clear whether Skinn or Anglo held the rights to the Warrior material. (I think McFarlane is completely out of the picture at this point.) There's rumors that things were close to settled, but none of the sides will answer questions in a definitive manner.

    Then Garry Leach and Skinn contested over the inclusion of the Warpsmiths (Leach) and Big Ben (Skinn). Rumors that this had been settled, too, but again, no definite information.

  14. #74
    New Member Full-Page Bleed's Avatar
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    Sequart have been running some in depth analysis of the series since last year: starting here.

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