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  1. #31
    Elder Member Charles RB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
    The thing that's harder than prose isn't what's happening in the panels, it's what's happening BETWEEN the panels. See Scott McCloud's Understanding Comics.
    And which panel you look at in what order. Strips are easy, the panels follow each other, but in comics they go down the page as well and the panels might be placed funny and then the art gets experimental...

    Could the nine-grid format be one of the reasons Watchmen sold so many copies, it was an easy comic for new readers to understand?
    "We must fight on!"
    "We'll die. We fight and we die, that's how it goes."
    "Then we die gloriously!"
    "There's an important word there, and it's not gloriously."
    - Only You Can Save Mankind

  2. #32
    From Parts Unknown... clayholio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles RB View Post
    And which panel you look at in what order. Strips are easy, the panels follow each other, but in comics they go down the page as well and the panels might be placed funny and then the art gets experimental...

    Could the nine-grid format be one of the reasons Watchmen sold so many copies, it was an easy comic for new readers to understand?
    I'm a big advocate of the grid. Put simply, if you hand a comic book to a non-comic reader, and it's one that's all two-page spreads, or the panels zig-zag all over the place, that's advanced reading (the same way reading right-to-left manga isn't an innate skill for western readers). Anything that gets in the way of quickly processing the information is a barrier. People who read text are used to reading things in blocks and on single pages, not ping-ponging around the page or following sentences across both pages in a book or magazine. The grid probably helped a lot of people get through Watchmen, and Maus, and a lot of other books that have crossed over.

  3. #33
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    No I was actually talking to a woman about comics and she was like" How do people even read comics? Up and down? or left to right?" She wasn't dumb either.

  4. #34
    R.I.P. Dwayne McDuffie Greg Anderson's Avatar
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    There were two instances in where people I knew had trouble understanding comics. One was an English professor of mine but she got into understanding them very quickly. It mostly helped that she was a Buffy fan so I got her into it by getting her into the Buffy comic and I remember having to sort of guide her in understanding some of the "language" of reading comics and she was amazed at certain things, like certain information that was provided through the art rather than explicitly telling you through text or dialogue.

    I also had a friend who was into the Batman movies. I lent him The Long Halloween and it seem for the life of him he couldn't understand how to read it. He didn't know what panels he needed to read first or boxes to read. He didn't understand some of the aspects of the dialogue and narration happening at the same time, how some actions got to the next panel, etc. I was extremely baffled by his difficulty in understanding any of it.
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  5. #35
    Senior Member Sonofspam's Avatar
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    It's funny but i just lent one of my friends the Watchmen GN and i'm not sure he is gonna be able to read it i guess because he says he has a short attention span ? the funny thing was that he said he was probably gonna try and read it with his little girls and i was like "ummm no thats not a good idea"

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Anderson View Post
    There were two instances in where people I knew had trouble understanding comics. One was an English professor of mine but she got into understanding them very quickly. It mostly helped that she was a Buffy fan so I got her into it by getting her into the Buffy comic and I remember having to sort of guide her in understanding some of the "language" of reading comics and she was amazed at certain things, like certain information that was provided through the art rather than explicitly telling you through text or dialogue.

    I also had a friend who was into the Batman movies. I lent him The Long Halloween and it seem for the life of him he couldn't understand how to read it. He didn't know what panels he needed to read first or boxes to read. He didn't understand some of the aspects of the dialogue and narration happening at the same time, how some actions got to the next panel, etc. I was extremely baffled by his difficulty in understanding any of it.
    I am a bit baffled as well, everything is right there or should be able to figure it out within moments, I never needed help figuring out how to read a comic as a kid, I never even knew this was an issue, never gave it a nano second of thought. And having so much information provided though the art is the best thing, novel readers would see that they do not have to explain every single little detail.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonofspam View Post
    It's funny but i just lent one of my friends the Watchmen GN and i'm not sure he is gonna be able to read it i guess because he says he has a short attention span ? the funny thing was that he said he was probably gonna try and read it with his little girls and i was like "ummm no thats not a good idea"
    I am guessing he cannot read novels, those are several times worse for anyone with attention span issues, then again I once heard someone say they cannot sit still to watch a two hour movie yet can read for hours on end, nope, do not understand that at all, watching things happen (comics count) is my personal favorite.

  7. #37
    Elder Member Charles RB's Avatar
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    I never needed help figuring out how to read a comic as a kid, I never even knew this was an issue
    The reason none of us had problems reading comics as a kid is because we started reading them as kids and it's become second nature to us. It's like reading music but with pictures of explosions.
    "We must fight on!"
    "We'll die. We fight and we die, that's how it goes."
    "Then we die gloriously!"
    "There's an important word there, and it's not gloriously."
    - Only You Can Save Mankind

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles RB View Post
    The reason none of us had problems reading comics as a kid is because we started reading them as kids and it's become second nature to us. It's like reading music but with pictures of explosions.
    I figured, I also imagine there are a ton of adults that it would not be an issue either, some people just think differently. I never for one second thought people would have a hard time reading comics, it is one of those things that one is so used to and it easy as ....... looking at a page that such an idea would never enter our minds.

    However a question someone heard about not sure which way to read a comic is not a stupid question, because based on the layout or panels it may not be the same as a book and they may just want to check, it may sound a bit silly to comic readers, it really is not that bad of a question for those who have never read a comic before.
    Last edited by Xiroteus; 01-21-2013 at 10:07 PM.

  9. #39
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    There have only been three instances where I have met a person who was having trouble with the mechanics of reading a comic. The first was when I tried to get a friend of mine who was used to the "western" left-to-right to read a (translated) manga that was published "unflipped," thus requiring them to read right to left. It took them awhile to decode the flip in their minds required to follow the panels. But they did eventually get it. It helped that the manga publisher put a diagram on the last page of the comic to tell them what order to read the panels in.

    The second was a person unfamiliar with reading comics in general who was trying to read a two-page spread of some superhero comic that was full of dialogue, but there was very little information on the page to direct the reader's eye so it was hard to tell what sequence to read the word balloons in. Thus the "conversation" that was supposed to be taking place in the spread was all jumbled up. Even I had a bit of trouble with it. This is why page layout and good paneling is important!

    The third was a friend of mine who saw one of the Spiderman movies and was inspired to start reading the comics. Which was all fine and good except he didn't pick up the movie adaptation or some other logical jumping-on point. He picked some random issue out of the dollar bin and was utterly confused when he realized that understanding the story required him to just know the most intricate details of stories that had been published throughout the past 50 years or so (and never made into movies). But that's a storytelling problem that has nothing to do with the reader.

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sabrina_Fried View Post
    There have only been three instances where I have met a person who was having trouble with the mechanics of reading a comic. The first was when I tried to get a friend of mine who was used to the "western" left-to-right to read a (translated) manga that was published "unflipped," thus requiring them to read right to left. It took them awhile to decode the flip in their minds required to follow the panels. But they did eventually get it. It helped that the manga publisher put a diagram on the last page of the comic to tell them what order to read the panels in.

    The second was a person unfamiliar with reading comics in general who was trying to read a two-page spread of some superhero comic that was full of dialogue, but there was very little information on the page to direct the reader's eye so it was hard to tell what sequence to read the word balloons in. Thus the "conversation" that was supposed to be taking place in the spread was all jumbled up. Even I had a bit of trouble with it. This is why page layout and good paneling is important!

    The third was a friend of mine who saw one of the Spiderman movies and was inspired to start reading the comics. Which was all fine and good except he didn't pick up the movie adaptation or some other logical jumping-on point. He picked some random issue out of the dollar bin and was utterly confused when he realized that understanding the story required him to just know the most intricate details of stories that had been published throughout the past 50 years or so (and never made into movies). But that's a storytelling problem that has nothing to do with the reader.
    I recall a time or two about full page spreads with dialogue, not sure if they are going all the way across or each page and up again.

    If I was to read manga I would prefer it to be flipped, backward things bother me for a couple of reasons, and one can get used to it even though it is awkward at first.

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