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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I don't know... I'm sure the Cyclops fans thoroughly enjoyed the sight of him showing up to kidnap Hope in a bright glowing thong in issue 10. I'm sure for a lot of them that was quite a treat.

    Or maybe not.
    When you're taking your granddaughter back from violent kidnappers, it's called a "rescue"
    Buy a dictionary sugah

  2. #17
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro Silva View Post
    When you're taking your granddaughter back from violent kidnappers, it's called a "rescue"
    Buy a dictionary sugah
    Not when the grand daughter left with the "supposed" kidnappers by choice.

    That's the big difference there. She willingly left with the Avengers because she wanted to help them stop (and save) the P5. Scott on the other hand was Phoenix punched by Hope to the moon because he was trying to force her to do something against her will. Hell, the idiot freaking shot at his grand daughter for no reason whatsoever the second he set foot on Kun Lun.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Not when the grand daughter left with the "supposed" kidnappers by choice.
    That's stupid
    If my daughters want to shave hear head and join a death cult, doesn't mean she can just because she is "willing"

  4. #19
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro Silva View Post
    That's stupid
    If my daughters want to shave hear head and join a death cult, doesn't mean she can just because she is "willing"
    She can if she's not actually your daughter, and old enough to make that decision without you.

    Hope could leave Utopia if she chose too. Cyclops himself stated that multiple times. If he was lying, then he's got no one but himself to blame. Just as he has no one to blame but himself when she Chaos punched him to the moon in retaliation for him attacking her for no reason whatsoever in Kun Lun.

  5. #20
    Ain't no Snowflake yanapryde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro Silva View Post
    That's stupid
    If my daughters want to shave hear head and join a death cult, doesn't mean she can just because she is "willing"
    That is a good point.
    Hope is still a minor during AvX, isn't/wasn't she?
    From Scott's perspective, though acting of her own free will, she's rushing off to join a group of men and women who his son vehemently argued against her keeping company with, for her safety.
    Strictly from a Grandfatherly perspective, his urgency to "rescue" are valid.

    I believe its less about "leaving Utopia" or even "leaving the X-Men" and more about "going with the people your father warned would harm/kill you"
    cpjudd.com

    "Um, blah, blah, blah. And, Girl Power. Feminism, d'you know what I mean?"

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    She can if she's not actually your daughter, and old enough to make that decision without you.
    She's his granddaughter in any way that matters and not five minutes after she left one her own she is picking up the guy that tried to stab her in the guts just "to be safe", and proceeds to alcholize him and bring her along into a murder spree, before he proceeds to try to murder her again
    In the fucking moon
    Your argument is forever invalid

  7. #22
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yanapryde View Post
    That is a good point.
    Hope is still a minor during AvX, isn't/wasn't she?
    From Scott's perspective, though acting of her own free will, she's rushing off to join a group of men and women who his son vehemently argued against her keeping company with, for her safety.
    Strictly from a Grandfatherly perspective, his urgency to "rescue" are valid.

    I believe its less about "leaving Utopia" or even "leaving the X-Men" and more about "going with the people your father warned would harm/kill you"
    Sure, Cyclops had valid reasons to not want Hope to leave with the Avengers. He flat out said they were going to use her as a weapon against them... and they did. Hope was the one that ended up putting Scott down, wresting control of the Phoenix from him. Scotts concerns were very understandable. Though it still didn't entirely justify him attacking her in Kun Lun... in a thong. Scott needs to work on the diplomacy a bit more.

    But ultimately the issue was that Hope had every right to leave... and perhaps more importantly it's what she needed to do. She believed she needed to free the P5 from the Phoenix, and the Avengers could help her in doing that. And she was right.

  8. #23
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    Refer to the part where argument is invalid.
    Just because your view is contrarian in rhetoric that doesn't mean it's equal in merit.
    I can beat your just by re-quoting my own

  9. #24
    Ain't no Snowflake yanapryde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Sure, Cyclops had valid reasons to not want Hope to leave with the Avengers. He flat out said they were going to use her as a weapon against them... and they did. Hope was the one that ended up putting Scott down, wresting control of the Phoenix from him. Scotts concerns were very understandable. Though it still didn't entirely justify him attacking her in Kun Lun... in a thong. Scott needs to work on the diplomacy a bit more.

    But ultimately the issue was that Hope had every right to leave... and perhaps more importantly it's what she needed to do. She believed she needed to free the P5 from the Phoenix, and the Avengers could help her in doing that. And she was right.
    That's the thing about AvX.
    Everyone was right about something at some point. We're all still arguing to justify one team's victory vs. the other's.
    I'm just thrilled its over.
    cpjudd.com

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  10. #25
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yanapryde View Post
    That's the thing about AvX.
    Everyone was right about something at some point. We're all still arguing to justify one team's victory vs. the other's.
    I'm just thrilled its over.
    I do think from a certain perspective you can credibly say that marvel tried to balance this event out.

    I think to a degree at least you can say both sides had somewhat of a valid point, while both sides made their fair share of mistakes. And both the Avengers and X-Men came together in the end to save the world, so neither team technically lost in the end.

  11. #26
    Senior Member I'm Not Daredevil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klinton View Post
    Oh...I'm sorry that AVX was such a complete and utter let down for you then. To not even find one thing to like in the entire series must suck. :/
    I did name something I liked. That Cyclops was right. Also that Cap was wrong, so thats two things.

  12. #27
    We'll Be Waiting For You godzilla2099's Avatar
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    The best part of AvX was definitely the ending with Cyclops being Right. He knew Hope was Special. He knew the Phoenix was going to reignite the mutants. Like him or not, that's what happened. For years, the story focused on the X-Men just trying to survive. I'm glad its over.

    As for Captain America, I'm glad I read this series. One of the reasons I've read Bucky's Book religiously and Steve's casually was because Steve was almost too perfect. These last few events he's been making some mistakes and now I've been picking up more and more of his books. I still like Bucky more but much of that is due to Brubaker

    The only thing that made this series worthwhile was Gillen's Uncanny X-Men Issues. He really took this turd and polished it into a diamond.

  13. #28
    Veteran Member stussyjones's Avatar
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    Hope like what 16 or 17 right so she is still a minor

  14. #29
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stussyjones View Post
    Hope like what 16 or 17 right so she is still a minor
    Scott isn't a blood relative or her legal guardian, so Hope actually did have the right to refuse to stay with Cyclops on Utopia, and the right to refuse to leave with him in Kun Lun (especially after he fired upon her). Even Cyclops said she could leave whenever she wants.

    So the notion that Cyclops was rescuing Hope when she CLEARLY was with the Avengers by choice I think is fairly inaccurate. I can understand why Scott from a certain perspective saw it that way... but really it was just a violent kidnapping attempt. In a thong.

  15. #30
    Veteran Member stussyjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Scott isn't a blood relative or her legal guardian, so Hope actually did have the right to refuse to stay with Cyclops on Utopia, and the right to refuse to leave with him in Kun Lun (especially after he fired upon her). Even Cyclops said she could leave whenever she wants.

    So the notion that Cyclops was rescuing Hope when she CLEARLY was with the Avengers by choice I think is fairly inaccurate. I can understand why Scott from a certain perspective saw it that way... but really it was just a violent kidnapping attempt. In a thong.
    Her guardian cable left Scott in charge when it comes to her safety

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