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  1. #16
    Long Live the Legion Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    Not so much ignoring it but changing most of it back to the way it was (the Inhumans, Kree) or just changing it completly (Nova). Some stuff (Darkhawk and the Raptors, Badoon) will probably not be touched on again at all.

    I don't know. Maybe Bendis will respect the previous run and not change up every character personality just to suit his style. Its hard to say. On the other hand Loeb never has cared anything about what came before him and is just going to do what he wants even if it does contadict past Nova stuff.

    Of the two I am willing to give Bendis a shot. Loeb not a chance in hell.

  2. #17
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    Not so much ignoring it but changing most of it back to the way it was (the Inhumans, Kree) or just changing it completly (Nova). Some stuff (Darkhawk and the Raptors, Badoon) will probably not be touched on again at all.

    I don't know. Maybe Bendis will respect the previous run and not change up every character personality just to suit his style. Its hard to say. On the other hand Loeb never has cared anything about what came before him and is just going to do what he wants even if it does contadict past Nova stuff.

    Of the two I am willing to give Bendis a shot. Loeb not a chance in hell.
    I do think marvel did a lot of resetting things back to their default setting just prior to Marvel Now. Hickman in particular hit the reset button for Wakanda, the Inhumans, and the Kree in his Fantastic Four book. Maybe it was in part to help give more of a clean slate for some of the new stuff that was happening.

  3. #18
    Elder Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jumpoff! View Post
    Yeah I'm with you on this, IMO all this new cosmic stuff just sounds bad.
    I loved the DnA stuff from Annihilation onwards, because they set up the universe in a way that made it look like a relational community.

    What I like about Bendis' involvement is that he is going to make the universe into a less independent community that DnA used, into an interconnected community dependent on the Earthlings who upset the whole independence of everybody. Now, instead of the Aliens all having their own separate conferences, now, all the Alien conferences are sore that Earth caused all the trouble they have and they are going to do something about it.
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  4. #19
    File Clerk of MI13 The Sword Is Drawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jakerose View Post
    Its not so much that they are ignoring previous cosmic Marvel.
    Its just that they do not understand what made Cosmic Marvel great.

    This, mostly.

    Don't get me wrong. I think on paper Bendis is actually a good fit to writing GotG. Although the odd redesign of Gamora, taking the helmet away from Star Lord and including Iron Man does worry me. Wasn't bowled over by his writing them in Avengers Assemble either.

    Loeb I very rarely have much confidence in, anyway. But trying to replace Richard Rider with a kids cartoon character? No. I have no interest in reading such a series. I'm a huge Nova fan, and this book cannot be Nova in any sense that I'd be interested in.
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by CMBMOOL View Post
    I know that Bendis is using DnA's team of Guardians, but what I'm upset over is that it just that Bendis and Loeb are willing to ignore the previous work that DnA did to make these characters great in the first place.
    It should make you feel better though that you made this all up. No one has ignored anything.

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  6. #21
    THE SUPERIOR MEMBER! USERNAME TAKEN's Avatar
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    None of the books are out yet.

    I think we need to get a couple of issues under our belts first before we conclude.
    Adults struggle desperately with fiction, demanding constantly that it conform to the rules of everyday life when the answer is obvious to the smallest child: because it's not real. - Grant Morrison

  7. #22
    MXAAGVNIEETRO were right The Black Guardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Not to be mean, but I'm actually kind of glad they removed DnA from the cosmic books.

    THe last 2 Annihilator books IMO at least were really flat. I think DnA were sort of running out of steam by that point, and needed to pass the baton.

    Of course that doesn't mean I wouldn't mind them revisiting the characters. But I think he needed a break from them, and we needed some new voices.
    I've gotta agree. Giffen was really the mastermind behind the greatness of Marvel Cosmic. DnA were great on Nova (for a time), and okay on Conquest, but not much else.

    That Inhumans/Kree thing never made much sense, anyway.
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  8. #23
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Guardian View Post
    I've gotta agree. Giffen was really the mastermind behind the greatness of Marvel Cosmic. DnA were great on Nova (for a time), and okay on Conquest, but not much else.

    And the Inhumans/Kree thing was really just something they inherited from other writers.
    It's too bad Giffen didn't end up doing more in marvel with the cosmic stuff before leaving.

    Annihilation was arguably the best thing marvel has put out in the last decade, and even his small bit in Conquest with Starlord I think really stood out.

    Not that DnA didn't put out solid stuff, but I think in a lot of ways he was riding Giffens coat tails for the earlier part of his run, and was slowly losing momentum the rest of the way. Though it was all still pretty solid IMO... until he got to the Annihilators stuff.

    Frankly I think he probably should have just left well enough alone with Thanos Imperative. That seemed like a natural stopping point for his run. And it would have ended things somewhat on a high note.

  9. #24
    Senior Member agrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CMBMOOL View Post
    I know that Bendis is using DnA's team of Guardians, but what I'm upset over is that it just that Bendis and Loeb are willing to ignore the previous work that DnA did to make these characters great in the first place.
    The characters were great before DnA started using them. I enjoyed the first dozen or so issues of the Guardians of the Galaxy series, but it was really Keith Giffen that got those characters back into the public eye. DnA had a nice start, and then they bogged everything down in the War of Kings and Realm of Kings stories they wanted to tell.

    I'm not optimistic Bendis/Loeb will do anything better with cosmic than DnA did, but the fact is that sales on Guardians and Nova were dwindling by the end of their runs and that's why they were axed. Marvel is not simply going to pick up where titles that shed readers by the thousands left off, nor should they. Some of the creative choices/decisions DnA made were instrumental in those books ending, and I won't even get into the ugly eyesores that were the two Annihilators series. I wouldn't have hand-picked Bendis or Loeb to take over, but it was time for somebody else to do something with the characters, because DnA seemed to have run out of (good) stories to tell.

  10. #25
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agrich View Post
    The characters were great before DnA started using them. I enjoyed the first dozen or so issues of the Guardians of the Galaxy series, but it was really Keith Giffen that got those characters back into the public eye. DnA had a nice start, and then they bogged everything down in the War of Kings and Realm of Kings stories they wanted to tell.

    I'm not optimistic Bendis/Loeb will do anything better with cosmic than DnA did, but the fact is that sales on Guardians and Nova were dwindling by the end of their runs and that's why they were axed. Marvel is not simply going to pick up where titles that shed readers by the thousands left off, nor should they. Some of the creative choices/decisions DnA made were instrumental in those books ending, and I won't even get into the ugly eyesores that were the two Annihilators series. I wouldn't have hand-picked Bendis or Loeb to take over, but it was time for somebody else to do something with the characters, because DnA seemed to have run out of (good) stories to tell.
    In the least, I'm optimistic that Bendis/Loeb will do a better job with the cosmic than DnA did in Annihilators.

    Given how low the bar presently is, it's almost impossible not to move the franchises in a positive direction.

  11. #26
    Senior Member agrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I agree. An explanation is needed.
    I think people should just be able to use their imagination. At the end of Imperative, Star-Lord and Nova stay in the collapsing universe to keep Thanos trapped there. Since he shows up in the Avengers series, we can reasonably surmise that they failed; he was too powerful. When he teleported out or whatnot, they were able to hitch a ride. Back in our universe, Star-Lord gathered together the Guardians he was able to track down to combat him. (I should point out here that I did not read the Avengers series, so maybe I've missed some explanation or lack thereof in that book.) Regardless, why can't the simplest explanation be the correct one? "Nova and Star-Lord failed." Oh well. I get that some people need it spelled out, and old-school Marvel used to have lengthy explanation about how such and such a villain returned from apparent death or whatever, but just because some find it desirable doesn't mean everyone finds it necessary. DnA didn't explain every single thing involving the back stories of cosmic characters they dregged up from the middle of nowhere, either.

  12. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jakerose View Post
    Its not so much that they are ignoring previous cosmic Marvel.
    Its just that they do not understand what made Cosmic Marvel great.
    And you know this because?

    Oh look, people are jumping to conclusions again on CBR.

  13. #28
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agrich View Post
    I think people should just be able to use their imagination. At the end of Imperative, Star-Lord and Nova stay in the collapsing universe to keep Thanos trapped there. Since he shows up in the Avengers series, we can reasonably surmise that they failed; he was too powerful. When he teleported out or whatnot, they were able to hitch a ride. Back in our universe, Star-Lord gathered together the Guardians he was able to track down to combat him. (I should point out here that I did not read the Avengers series, so maybe I've missed some explanation or lack thereof in that book.) Regardless, why can't the simplest explanation be the correct one? "Nova and Star-Lord failed." Oh well. I get that some people need it spelled out, and old-school Marvel used to have lengthy explanation about how such and such a villain returned from apparent death or whatever, but just because some find it desirable doesn't mean everyone finds it necessary. DnA didn't explain every single thing involving the back stories of cosmic characters they dregged up from the middle of nowhere, either.
    It doesn't have to be a lengthy explanation... they just need to give us one.

    And I'm fine with that explanation not being in Avengers Assemble, because by design it was supposed to be accessible to readers.

    But ultimately I do think an explanation should be given. It can be as simple and as short as Bendis wants... but there should be one. To me that's just common sense story telling.

    As far as DnA not explaining every single thing... did they ever bother explaining why Bug is human sized and running around the 616? That always confused me.

  14. #29
    Senior Member agrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    As far as DnA not explaining every single thing... did they ever bother explaining why Bug is human sized and running around the 616? That always confused me.
    I think that was Giffen's error, and he conceded in some interview that he just messed up. I guess DnA should have tried to explain it.

    With DnA some of the stuff I was thinking of was their use of Warlock and Gamora, pretty much disregarding where they'd been left by Starlin, and then his use of The Magus (disregarding Peter David's use of the character in his Captain Marvel book). People lament other writers ignoring DnA continuity while overlooking the fact that DnA had no problem doing it themselves.

  15. #30
    Veteran Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    For those praising Giffen's Cosmic Marvel work, I have to say his new series, Threshold, over at DC really impressed me with the first issue, Started with a bang, and is looking really promising. Lot's of world building, similar to what Robinson is doing with Earth 2.

    Peace

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