Secret Wars vs. The Frieza Saga

[Sub-Zero MKA]

I'm pretty sure he stated that he read Trunks' mind, but I might be misremembering.

He said he searched his feelings, so I think that would be empathy, right?

[Guy1]

[big_adventure]

Relativistic just means an actual percentage of light (starting at 1 on), which would be multiple thousands of mach and up. I figured that was something everyone here could agree on.

Where did you get that definition of "relativistic"? And why is 1% any more of an "actual percentage" than 0.00000000001%?

1% of light speed doesn't begin to move the needle on the special theory of relativity. Which is the one that, you know, takes velocity into account - you need to be at HIGH percentages of light before velocity starts to matter, relativistically. When people talk relativistic speed, they are talking close to light speed - speeds where relativity comes into play.

[BitVyper]

"Why is you did not avoid me?" Not exactly a translation I would trust.

At any rate, it's either telepathy or ki sense that is indistinguishable from telepathy, and given that Goku's ki sense is already known to have extended to outright mindreading and listening in on telepathic conversations between planes that he isn't supposed to be privvy to, there's essentially no line between the two at this point.

[abmccray]

Where did you get that definition of "relativistic"? And why is 1% any more of an "actual percentage" than 0.00000000001%?

1% of light speed doesn't begin to move the needle on the special theory of relativity. Which is the one that, you know, takes velocity into account - you need to be at HIGH percentages of light before velocity starts to matter, relativistically. When people talk relativistic speed, they are talking close to light speed - speeds where relativity comes into play.

Because that's what it means. Once you get into even the lowest percentages of light, time starts to dilate to a degree, according to Einstein's theory. So, essentially, anything around 6,000 mach + falls under that.

People say "high relativity" or "significant fraction of light" when they're talking about "approaching light."

[Surtur]

"Why is you did not avoid me?" Not exactly a translation I would trust.

At any rate, it's either telepathy or ki sense that is indistinguishable from telepathy, and given that Goku's ki sense is already known to have extended to outright mindreading and listening in on telepathic conversations between planes that he isn't supposed to be privvy to, there's essentially no line between the two at this point.

Even if it was telepathy what does it do in regards to this scenario? It doesn't translate to telepathic defenses. If they for some reason try to get into a mental battle with anyone they'd be screwed. I don't know why they'd bother though, they can blow up Professor X just fine before he does anything. Otherwise any DBZ'er would be left a drooling mess.

On the other hand if there are other Marvel heroes who could protect the Prof long enough for him to lay down a mental whammy that isn't good..

So. How exactly are the mental defences of the DBZ guys against Prof X? Can they do much to Klaw? Or Ultron? At this stage in their development, would they still blitz Thor?

They'd blitz Thor easily well before this stage in their development. As for Klaw, he's made of sound so maybe they can't outright destroy him, but what can he do to them?

Edit: Oh, wait. Scratch all of that. Monica Rambeau. The Zeus-hurting girl. Can they live with her at all?

Depends on how powerful Marvel Zeus is I guess. Also was this "she hurts him to the point where she could defeat him" or "she surprises Zeus and manages to hurt him a tiny bit, but would get beaten down by him nonetheless" ?

[Estrecca]

As for Klaw, he's made of sound so maybe they can't outright destroy him, but what can he do to them?

They can punch Klaw, which when done with superstrength of fairly high level tends to be very effective in knocking out the dude.

[big_adventure]

Even if it was telepathy what does it do in regards to this scenario? It doesn't translate to telepathic defenses. If they for some reason try to get into a mental battle with anyone they'd be screwed. I don't know why they'd bother though, they can blow up Professor X just fine before he does anything. Otherwise any DBZ'er would be left a drooling mess.

On the other hand if there are other Marvel heroes who could protect the Prof long enough for him to lay down a mental whammy that isn't good..



They'd blitz Thor easily well before this stage in their development. As for Klaw, he's made of sound so maybe they can't outright destroy him, but what can he do to them?



Depends on how powerful Marvel Zeus is I guess. Also was this "she hurts him to the point where she could defeat him" or "she surprises Zeus and manages to hurt him a tiny bit, but would get beaten down by him nonetheless" ?

She actually caused him pain. Her advantage here is that she's LOADS faster than anyone else, and from what I gather about the DBZ people at that phase, she should have no problem actually hurting them.

[Surtur]

They can punch Klaw, which when done with superstrength of fairly high level tends to be very effective in knocking out the dude.

I see, well then Klaw is basically a non-issue. Though I guess one can wonder what strength of a "fairly high level" means here? If it takes like..Thor level strength they're in trouble.

She actually caused him pain. Her advantage here is that she's LOADS faster than anyone else, and from what I gather about the DBZ people at that phase, she should have no problem actually hurting them.

I know she's supposed to be lightspeed, but what are her best speed feats again?

[abmccray]

Depends on how powerful Marvel Zeus is I guess. Also was this "she hurts him to the point where she could defeat him" or "she surprises Zeus and manages to hurt him a tiny bit, but would get beaten down by him nonetheless" ?

From what I'm seeing in searching for this on the Internet, she released practically all her power (to the point where she has to fake having any more) and dropped him to a knee, then he gets up and blasts everyone away. it looks like a low showing for Zeus in general, but I can't find the whole book.

[Estrecca]

Though I guess one can wonder what strength of a "fairly high level" means here? If it takes like..Thor level strength they're in trouble.

The Thing did it several times in several different encounters over three decades.

[Beadle]

From what I'm seeing in searching for this on the Internet, she released practically all her power (to the point where she has to fake having any more) and dropped him to a knee, then he gets up and blasts everyone away. it looks like a low showing for Zeus in general, but I can't find the whole book.

True, more or less.

But (and I know we don't take anecdotal statements - I'm just putting it in for colour context) Thor, having seen this, basically said "Shit of the Allfather! The Odinson hath never witnessed someone busteth Zeus' arse thusly!"

[Surtur]

From what I'm seeing in searching for this on the Internet, she released practically all her power (to the point where she has to fake having any more) and dropped him to a knee, then he gets up and blasts everyone away. it looks like a low showing for Zeus in general, but I can't find the whole book.

I mean..barring any more hugely impressive feats from Zeus? I'd hate to see what Goku unloading on the guy would do then. I've heard Thor could sort of make Zeus work for it. I've also heard Zeus can go "lol no" to Thor so..who knows.

[abmccray]

I mean..barring any more hugely impressive feats from Zeus? I'd hate to see what Goku unloading on the guy would do then. I've heard Thor could sort of make Zeus work for it. I've also heard Zeus can go "lol no" to Thor so..who knows.

Well, don't get me wrong, Zeus is hugely powerful since he's literally par with Odin just by his stated nature (which you can pull from Hercules' more cosmic adventures in his book), but from what I can see of the pages, he's not presented at that level in that issue (ie, Odin's higher feats). I don't mind taking it as fact, but it seems to be a bit of "Zeus is presented as lower-end than he actually is, in the grand scheme of things" combined with "she hasn't had any effect on anyone nearly that level before, but then again, she never released ALL of her power like that." Right before that, she released a tiny blast and hit Zeus in the arm and he said "ow" which is FAR greater than blasts of those level have shown effect from her.

Even if you grant her that as a feat - she takes out one guy, leaving 15 more to take care of everyone else, since it drains all of her power to make him go down on one knee for a second.

[Little_Mac]

Even if it was telepathy what does it do in regards to this scenario? It doesn't translate to telepathic defenses. If they for some reason try to get into a mental battle with anyone they'd be screwed. I don't know why they'd bother though, they can blow up Professor X just fine before he does anything. Otherwise any DBZ'er would be left a drooling mess.

On the other hand if there are other Marvel heroes who could protect the Prof long enough for him to lay down a mental whammy that isn't good..

How good is Magneto's shields? If there was any time to set it up, Magneto might be able to give Professor X the time he needs. Also, could the Absorbing Man get able to handle one of Goku's blast?

It also depends on the scenario. If it is an arena battle (and everyone is fighting each other at once), DBZ should blitz the Marvel heroes. If the Marvel Heroes get to travel around a bit and explore, it then becomes a stomp in the other direction. Doom and Mr. Fantastic get prep Time to examine Namek Technology.

It might have been more fun, if the DBZ guys went to Battle World instead. Goku fighting the influence of the Venom symbiotic would have been interesting.