BATMAN #16 Review/Discussion/Spoilers

[Whip Whirlwind]

Is anybody really bothered by the joker being cruel to animals? This is the joker we're talking about.

[adkal]

I was more 'miffed' about Batman punching one, personally. There were other approaches he could have used to unseat the rider and take control of the horse.

[Whip Whirlwind]

I was more 'miffed' about Batman punching one, personally. There were other approaches he could have used to unseat the rider and take control of the horse.

That on the other hand is understandable. He certainly could have gone directly for the rider.

[maxpower00044]

Meh, punching the horse was fine with me.

[DarkKnghtJared]

I was rereading this and I had a thought--I think this is going to be the issue that ends Joker's "Bat-king" talk, perhaps inverting on it all.

Look at the final sequence of the main story: Joker and the Rogues are standing in this elaborate setting with all these medievil/king troupes, including the sword in the stone allegory (which I think was supposed to be an anvil--Joker refers to it as such--but it didn't translate into the art), the way that the ultimate king was chosen, and, of course, the throne. But, Joker bars Batman from the kingly throne. When Joker tells Batman to sit on his throne, it turns out to be a previously unseen electric chair. That can't be there without a reason.

Will have myself a jolly chuckle if the lid is lifted to show Alfred's face, in a moment of horror Bruce freaks out, turns out Joker just sculpted Alfred's face out of mashed potatoes/some kind of foodstuff and the dripping red liquid is ketchup. Alfred's fine off in a corner, bound and gagged.

That's what I'd love to see Joker do one of these days. Orchestrate a terrible, horrible plot, all to play an incredibly cruel prank on Bats.

...Damn, I think that might be my favorite theory for the platter yet.

A question: do people who read more Bat-books than me feel DOTF is as over-stretched as CoO was? I'm really happy this is a shorter arc, but I wonder if that tightness is lost on readers who follow more titles...

I don't think so. I would say that the reason why the Owls story was a little much had less to do with how Snyder wrote it--almost all the issues were important in progressing the story to some extent--but it felt like these new villains didn't warrant an eleven-issue arc, and despite all those issues, the Court never really felt like legit, three-dimensional threats. At least with this, we know the stakes are big and real...well, about as real as big-two superhero comics go, anyway.

[Whip Whirlwind]

Honestly, it being an event is what killed the CoO's credibility. It required that they do an all out assault requiring the aid of Batman AND his allies, and IMO what killed their credibility is that they went from considering Bruce a non issue to freaking out and going nuclear the minute he escaped from their trap.

[nosocialize100]

Considering there was a tapestry made of human bodies I think the horsey got away with a less painful death.

[Mr. Holmes]

Well, for one thing, I don't think Morrison tried to "move away" from the Miller interpretation of Batman. Outside of Miller's last attempt at trying to make what would become Holy Terror a Batman story, it sounded like he didn't hate that interpretation of Batman--I mean hell, this is the guy who said he enjoyed the Batman & Robin movie for what it was, this isn't a guy who hates any interpretation of Batman. I thought of it more as a re-contextualization of that take. I mean, he figured that the key moment that Bruce needed a family of allies that he extended to Batman Incorporated came from a moment Miller wrote.

Umm...I never said Morrison hates Frank Miller's Batman. In theory sure one thing could lead to the other, but that doesn't have to be the reason why Morrison would want to move away from that. He's said in direct interviews that he wanted to get away from the psychotic portrayal of the character, and that someone as skilled as Batman would study zen, etc. He enjoys All Star Batman precisely because it's a piss take on Miller's own work - and it was pretty clear that Batman of ZEA was a reference to all of that.

I don't think how competent or independent your children are really factor into it. I mean, I'm in my 20s and my parents still worry about me. Hell, THEIR parents still worry about them, despite the decades of experience and having children of their own. Factor that with a character who's whole entire MO is trying to protect everyone, and you better believe he fears for his Family's safety, no matter how badass they are.

It's not that Batman shouldn't worry - I was responding to his complaint that the Batman family seems to be portrayed as damsels in distress.

[theDarkJAww13]

I KNEW as soon as I saw the horse-punch panel that people on here were gonna be feeling dodgy about it lol. i actually laughed when that happened - it seemed so out of nowhere. Don't get me wrong, I'm not some weirdo down for animal cruelty - but in a comic book, seeing BATMAN of all characters punch a horse in the face? I couldn't help but giggle a bit. It seems between this and Django Unchained, horses are getting the crap-end of the stick lately haha.

I dug the issue for the most part, though I could have done without the whole 'Royal family' ruse Joker set up with Two-Face, Riddler and Penguin. It seemed a bit silly for them to just go along with Joker like that - allowing him to play dress up with them, etc etc. I also didn't like how Batman so easily got past Mr. Freeze, Clayface & Scarecrow on the way up to Jerimiah's room. How are they supposed to seem like credible threats in future issues if Batman can take them down while being in a rush on a staircase?

Other than that stuff, though, I thought the issue was cool. A little jagged on the dialogue, but we all know Snyder isn't the best in that area. Like I mentioned in like 2 other threads, I have a feeling it'll be Alfred's removed face on the dinner platter Joker's been carrying around in recent issues. Can't wait to read the conclusion!

[adkal]

Considering there was a tapestry made of live human bodies I think the horsey got away with a less painful death.

Fixed it for you.

I think the second horse suffered the most, though. The first one (last issue) was shot dead and the third one was punched by Batman, sure, but was instantly frozen before being smashed...so...yeah, second horse probably suffered the most overall...

[ispacehead]

I enjoyed this issue. I haven't really cared for Snyder's work on the title, but this was good fun.

Except for the whole "Don't listen to him..." thing. That was kinda silly imo, but otherwise I dug it for the most part.

[nosocialize100]

Fixed it for you.

I think the second horse suffered the most, though. The first one (last issue) was shot dead and the third one was punched by Batman, sure, but was instantly frozen before being smashed...so...yeah, second horse probably suffered the most overall...

I can't help but think, considering horses are used symbolically so much, there's some heavy handed symbolism going on with the horses. I read somewhere they represent honor, pride and power. Are these things Joker is trying to destroy in Batman?

[theDarkJAww13]

I can't help but think, considering horses are used symbolically so much, there's some heavy handed symbolism going on with the horses. I read somewhere they represent honor, pride and power. Are these things Joker is trying to destroy in Batman?

Possibly, but at the same time with Joker trying to alienate Batman from the Family it seems like he's actually trying to RESTORE some sense of honor, pride and especially power in him. After all, Batman ended up ON the horse after the chaos - it seemed like a short-lived moment of prosperity for Bats. Interesting thought though, it could really go either way...

[adkal]

Perhaps the (flaming) horse is a symbol for Alfred - there's an old fairy tale about a king who had a horse with flaming sun in its forehead. The horse provided the light necessary for light and, one day, it went missing so the king gathered his army to go look for it...

(of course, the fairy tale proceeds on quite a different path to what we're presented with here and the Joker is no seer...even if he has been reading about Batman and the others in his little book...)

[ugdave]

I can't help but think, considering horses are used symbolically so much, there's some heavy handed symbolism going on with the horses. I read somewhere they represent honor, pride and power. Are these things Joker is trying to destroy in Batman?

Just came to mind that the Knight piece in chess is a horse...