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  1. #1
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    Default Ultimatum Loose Ends

    First off, hello. This is my first thread.

    So, I've re-read Ultimatum and I can't help but notice this panel in issue #3.




    What's this Jocasta project Pym is talking about?

    Some kind of retcon machine in case the Ultimate Universe flops after Ultimatum?

    And whatever happened to Ultimate Namor?

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    Senior Member horsehead's Avatar
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    Hello. Yeah this is one of many loose ends that was never mentioned again. I'm sure every writer's run has produced some that never get answered, there are a few on Spencers recent X-Men.

    I think we once had a thread about open story lines from Ultimatum. Off the top of my head as well as Jocasta and what happened to Namor we also have who took Dr Strange's body. I'm sure there are loads more but I can't remember them at the moment

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    So far the loose ends I've seen in UU are: Sabretooth & Mystique after Ultimate X, Johhny Storm after DWF/UWS, Ben Grimm (currently in discussion), Lord Apocalypse & Mr. Sinister & Havok in UC:XM #12 , Psylocke being "resurrected" UC:XM #19, Namor & Strange after Ultimatum, and Pietro Lehnsherr in UC:XM. Also, what was the point of those dead characters coming back to life in Spencer's run? I mean the Sentinels thing was a great idea but his whole run is a bit of a clusterf*ck.

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    All Around Geek Havok C.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bugs View Post
    So far the loose ends I've seen in UU are: Sabretooth & Mystique after Ultimate X, Johhny Storm after DWF/UWS, Ben Grimm (currently in discussion), Lord Apocalypse & Mr. Sinister & Havok in UC:XM #12 , Psylocke being "resurrected" UC:XM #19, Namor & Strange after Ultimatum, and Pietro Lehnsherr in UC:XM. Also, what was the point of those dead characters coming back to life in Spencer's run? I mean the Sentinels thing was a great idea but his whole run is a bit of a clusterf*ck.
    spencer's run was more of a cluster fuck. Now under Brian wood, he's kinda condensed it. He's focusing more on one story, that story being kitty and her mutants. from there things will probably spin out into other stories.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok C. View Post
    spencer's run was more of a cluster fuck. Now under Brian wood, he's kinda condensed it. He's focusing more on one story, that story being kitty and her mutants. from there things will probably spin out into other stories.
    It's become a confusing mess of unanswered questions. The events of Divided We Fall - even Wood's current arcs - don't make any sense without the Apocalypse set up, seeing as it was Apocalypse that orchestrated the systematic massacre of the mutant race which has become the result of all that you read at the moment - Reservation X and the dwindling numbers of the mutant population.

    The majority of the entire DWF/UWS event doesn't make any sense without Apocalypse. He is - above all else - the one who orchestrated the events. He manipulated Quicksilver (aka Pietro Lensherr) and the creation of the Nimrod Sentinel fleet whilst he manipulated Reverend Stryker, which all lead to a second attempt to exterminate the mutant race. "Remember the last time the world ended?"

    ULTIMATUM. Just like Stryker, Magneto claimed that God wanted the mutant race to perish. And that Ultimatum is God's doing. Coincidence? I think not. Apocalypse swore revenge upon the mutant race shortly before it was revealed that the X-gene was bio-engineered by Weapon X. It seems as though Apocalypse may have gone back in time and orchestrated the creation of mutant kind, (similarly to how Scientologists believe the Christian god orchestrated the Big Bang), rewritting history. He then manipulated both Pietro and Magneto, which then lead to the events of Ultimatum. And even during Ultimatum, Stryker was carrying out "God's" command, and continued to do so until his death. It's all linked up, ready to be concluded. Hopefully we'll get some answers the next time we see Pietro. It's his agenda that needs to be fully explained more than anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robbie_Jee View Post
    It's become a confusing mess of unanswered questions. The events of Divided We Fall - even Wood's current arcs - don't make any sense without the Apocalypse set up, seeing as it was Apocalypse that orchestrated the systematic massacre of the mutant race which has become the result of all that you read at the moment - Reservation X and the dwindling numbers of the mutant population.

    The majority of the entire DWF/UWS event doesn't make any sense without Apocalypse. He is - above all else - the one who orchestrated the events. He manipulated Quicksilver (aka Pietro Lensherr) and the creation of the Nimrod Sentinel fleet whilst he manipulated Reverend Stryker, which all lead to a second attempt to exterminate the mutant race. "Remember the last time the world ended?"

    ULTIMATUM. Just like Stryker, Magneto claimed that God wanted the mutant race to perish. And that Ultimatum is God's doing. Coincidence? I think not. Apocalypse swore revenge upon the mutant race shortly before it was revealed that the X-gene was bio-engineered by Weapon X. It seems as though Apocalypse may have gone back in time and orchestrated the creation of mutant kind, (similarly to how Scientologists believe the Christian god orchestrated the Big Bang), rewritting history. He then manipulated both Pietro and Magneto, which then lead to the events of Ultimatum. And even during Ultimatum, Stryker was carrying out "God's" command, and continued to do so until his death. It's all linked up, ready to be concluded. Hopefully we'll get some answers the next time we see Pietro. It's his agenda that needs to be fully explained more than anything.
    So does that make Doom and Apocolypse the same person because according to Ultimates 3 Doom orchastrated everyting???
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    So does that make Doom and Apocolypse the same person because according to Ultimates 3 Doom orchastrated everyting???
    I doubt it. Doom didn't seem to want to bring about Ultimatum. But maybe he was seeing mannequins (Ghosts) too.

    I don't know if Apocalypse orchestrated the events of Ultimatum, but it's likely. What's for certain is that he was the primary force behind the events of DWF/UWS. If you ask me, some more Quicksilver development should reveal quite a bit to us. It seems as though we didn't really get a true understanding of his agenda during his fake death in Ultimates 3, his actions leading to the creation of the Nimrod Sentinels in 'Reborn' and what exactly the Ghosts of his dead father and sister were telling him to do in 'His Will Be Done'.
    Last edited by Robbie_Jee; 01-16-2013 at 10:50 AM. Reason: Clarity. I put "Ghosts" in brackets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robbie_Jee View Post
    I doubt it. Doom didn't seem to want to bring about Ultimatum. But maybe he was seeing mannequins too.

    I don't know if Apocalypse orchestrated the events of Ultimatum, but it's likely. What's for certain is that he was the primary force behind the events of DWF/UWS. If you ask me, some more Quicksilver development should reveal quite a bit to us. It seems as though we didn't really get a true understanding of his agenda during his fake death in Ultimates 3, his actions leading to the creation of the Nimrod Sentinels in 'Reborn' and what exactly the mannequin of his dead father and sister were telling him to do in 'His Will Be Done'.
    What does "seeing mannequins" mean. I'm unfamiliar with that phrase.
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    Junior Member Gold Rhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    What does "seeing mannequins" mean. I'm unfamiliar with that phrase.
    I think it goes back to when the X-Men found the Apocalypse mannequin in Sinister's apartment that he had been talking to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    What does "seeing mannequins" mean. I'm unfamiliar with that phrase.
    All those "ghosts".

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    Senior Member horsehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robbie_Jee View Post
    I doubt it. Doom didn't seem to want to bring about Ultimatum. But maybe he was seeing mannequins (Ghosts) too.

    I don't know if Apocalypse orchestrated the events of Ultimatum, but it's likely. What's for certain is that he was the primary force behind the events of DWF/UWS. If you ask me, some more Quicksilver development should reveal quite a bit to us. It seems as though we didn't really get a true understanding of his agenda during his fake death in Ultimates 3, his actions leading to the creation of the Nimrod Sentinels in 'Reborn' and what exactly the Ghosts of his dead father and sister were telling him to do in 'His Will Be Done'.
    Doom regretted bringing about Ultimatum but it was him behind it, it even says so in Ultimatum when they go and get Fury from the Supremeverse. Now how they got to the Supremeverse and how Fury knew that Doom was behind Ultimatum are two really annoying things that Loeb didn't even bother trying to explain

    It is never even so much as hinted anywhere that Apocalypse had anything to do with Ultimatum. That is just you putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with Purple Ben being the most powerful being in the universe

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    Quote Originally Posted by horsehead View Post
    Doom regretted bringing about Ultimatum but it was him behind it, it even says so in Ultimatum when they go and get Fury from the Supremeverse. Now how they got to the Supremeverse and how Fury knew that Doom was behind Ultimatum are two really annoying things that Loeb didn't even bother trying to explain
    I never said Doom's actions didn't lead to Ultimatum. I have read Ultimates 3. I was talking about Quicksilver's agenda and speculating about it.

    It is never even so much as hinted anywhere that Apocalypse had anything to do with Ultimatum. That is just you putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with Purple Ben being the most powerful being in the universe
    This is merely speculation horsehead, don't overreact. But I think Spencer was attempting to link the two from what I gather from Stryker and Pietro's motivations and the fact that both Stryker and Magneto were carrying out "God's Will," and also the events of issues #7 and #12 of UCXM. Also, "Do you remember the last time the world ended?". And Stryker's agenda goes all the way back to Ultimatum, again, carrying out God's Will. Have you read issues 7# and #12 of UCXM? They were part of an arc called His Will Be Done.

    I suppose we'll learn more about Quicksilver's agenda when we see him next. But like I said, I don't know if Apocalypse orchestrated Ultimatum. You seem to have not read that part. What's for certain though is that Apocalypse was the primary force behind DWF/UWS and the massacre of the mutants. That's something that needs to be addressed, as it's his involvement (or whatever "God" Sinister, Quicksilver, Stryker etc were being manipulated by) that has caused the events to have made Brian Wood's current stories possible.

    And btw, Ben Grimm is definetly not the most powerful character in the UU. That's absurd. I'm pretty sure Xorn, Zorn, Jean/Karen, Mephisto, Gah-Lak-Tus, The Children of Tomorrow and a few others could easily destroy him. Perhaps you should read through my posts again. I think he's one of the most powerful single characters though. No doubt about that.
    Last edited by Robbie_Jee; 01-16-2013 at 03:19 PM. Reason: deleted confused emoticon

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    Horsehead, perhaps you're able to explain Quicksilver's agenda a bit better than me? ;P

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    Senior Member horsehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robbie_Jee View Post
    Horsehead, perhaps you're able to explain Quicksilver's agenda a bit better than me? ;P
    I would if I could! He clearly wasn't masterminding Ultimatum, he didn't plan on getting shot by Hawkeye but I think that once he saw how angry his father was he let him try and kill everyone in his name as he had never been shown any love by him before and even after Magneto had been killed he wanted to carry on his work.

    What would be interesting here is to know what Loeb's reasonings were for these visions of Wanda - I think he was just setting up Pietro as the new leader of the Brotherhood who was going mad and seeing his dead sister. But I agree that Spencer has changed it now so that it is Sinister/Apocalypse who is pulling the strings

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