View Poll Results: Which matters more?

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  • Creative Team

    21 33.33%
  • Character

    42 66.67%
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  1. #91
    Old and broken Pat Thomas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulk_Is View Post
    Yeah, there's going to be duds here and there, but when there are major duds that keep on coming and it doesn't look like it's going to get any better from there on out, I'm out. Unlike you, I just don't have the optimism (or tolerance) to stick around.
    Hopefully, if they suck too long, a change is made. That's what usually happens when a title doesn't work.

  2. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Thomas View Post
    Hopefully, if they suck too long, a change is made. That's what usually happens when a title doesn't work.
    If someone that is loyal to the character keeps buying the book, why would anything change? Do you understand where I'm coming from?


    Edit- hard typing on a smartphone..
    Last edited by Voss; 01-15-2013 at 09:43 PM.

  3. #93
    T.S.O.T.I. Hulk_Is's Avatar
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    That's another reason why I'll drop books that I can't stand; if I keep buying it, then Marvel will just see it as a book selling at stabilized numbers and they may not even consider making much of a change, if any at all. But, if I drop it, then the message becomes clear, especially if enough people do the same.

    Of course, some will make the argument that Marvel may just cancel a book and we'd never get another and possible better creative change. I'm fine with that personally. YMMV
    Last edited by Hulk_Is; 01-15-2013 at 09:45 PM.
    Marvel, STOP writing for the Trade so I can go back to collecting Monthlies again. Thanks.

  4. #94
    Falsworth Groundskeeper highwayguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    If someone that is loyal to the character keeps buying the book, why would anything change? Do you understand where I'm coming from?


    Edit- hard typing on a smartphone..
    Quote Originally Posted by Hulk_Is View Post
    That's another reason why I'll drop books that I can't stand; if I keep buying it, then Marvel will just see it as a book selling at stabilized numbers and they may not even consider making much of a change, if any at all. But, if I drop it, then the message becomes clear, especially if enough people do the same.

    Of course, some will make the argument that Marvel may just cancel a book and we'd never get another and possible creative changes. I'm fine with that personally. YMMV
    Hulk_Is pretty much made the point I'm about to make, somewhat sympathetically, of course.

    With the likes of Spider-Man, Wolverine and the Marvel big guns, Marvel's answer to low sales would be to alter the creative teams. However, with the kind of characters that I like to follow, cancellation always seems to be their first option. Then we're left with nothing. No, I would rather collect a series, then rely on fan feedback if changes needed to be made. Personally, I have never came across that problem. Paul Cornell and Leonard Kirk on CB&MI13. Jim McCann on Hawkeye & Mockingbird. Immortal Iron Fist. The depth of talent that Marvel UK had to offer. Marvel have just swung the axe and gotten rid of these titles despite their creative teams.

    Do you think that Marvel judges its ongoing series by creative team or characters? Clearly, they judge by characters.
    Last edited by highwayguy; 01-15-2013 at 09:56 PM.
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  5. #95
    Completely sauced... klinton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulk_Is View Post
    That's another reason why I'll drop books that I can't stand; if I keep buying it, then Marvel will just see it as a book selling at stabilized numbers and they may not even consider making much of a change, if any at all. But, if I drop it, then the message becomes cler, especially if enough people do the same.

    Of course, some will make the argument that Marvel may just cancel a book and we'd never get another and possible creative changes. I'm fine with that personally. YMMV
    No creative team lasts forever. There will always be a change eventually. Even the most stellar sales can't hold a team to a book.

    And, really, you never know that what you may rail against in the moment might appeal to you later.

    An example of this was Claremont's depowering and 'destroying' Storm. I was so busy railing against it back then. I hated every minute of it. Looking back now, those stories are where most of my hardest held impressions of Ororo come from. What my ten year old self thought at the time is the opposite of my feelings now. Those are among my very favorite Storm stories.

    If you love a character, you just have to trust the long term. I almost feel sad for people that can't appreciate the simple magic in this and skitter about from title to title on a whim.
    Freedom is merely the ability to live without fear of persecution.

  6. #96
    Elder Member dupersuper's Avatar
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    Creative team in all cases but 1: I must get a Superman book.
    Pull List; seems to be too long to fit in my sig...

  7. #97
    Old and broken Pat Thomas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    If someone that is loyal to the character keeps buying the book, why would anything change? Do you understand where I'm coming from?


    Edit- hard typing on a smartphone..
    I don't think anybody here is saying that they will just keep buying something they hate for extended periods. I try to keep positive when there is a downturn, because it is truly cyclical. There will be fans and haters of every run. If the quality becomes terrible, sales will eventually drop on their own. The general public that don't frequent these boards can decide if they like a comic. It's pretty easy to tell, when nobody is influencing your opinion, if you enjoy something. If the product is really bad, sales eventualy decline and changes are made. Not everybody needs to be led around by the hand.

  8. #98
    T.S.O.T.I. Hulk_Is's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klinton View Post
    No creative team lasts forever. There will always be a change eventually. Even the most stellar sales can't hold a team to a book.

    And, really, you never know that what you may rail against in the moment might appeal to you later.
    While true, I've found that some things ultimately remain the same. I never thought I'd ever have the stomach for street-level characters, but one day I got into one, and things kind of opened up there. But, there are some characters of the street-level variety that remind why I'll never truely be a fan of street-level fare.

    An example of this was Claremont's depowering and 'destroying' Storm. I was so busy railing against it back then. I hated every minute of it. Looking back now, those stories are where most of my hardest held impressions of Ororo come from. What my ten year old self thought at the time is the opposite of my feelings now. Those are among my very favorite Storm stories.

    If you love a character, you just have to trust the long term. I almost feel sad for people that can't appreciate the simple magic in this and skitter about from title to title on a whim.
    How long is long term? I believe the last 15 years (at least) of Hulk stories have mostly been underwhelming and severely lacking. There's definitely huge gaps in my physical Hulk collection due to this. I couldn't personally be OK with completing the run due to trust in the character.

    I'm always reading multiple titles, so having to drop one title for another simply isn't a problem. I may be disappointed in probably having to drop Iron Man (NOW), but reading multiple titles (which are more likely more suitable) alleviates that disappointment.

    Comic reading for me is about settling in comfortably, not having to base your purchases on sheer trust, loyalty, or support.
    Marvel, STOP writing for the Trade so I can go back to collecting Monthlies again. Thanks.

  9. #99

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    Always creators. I do have my favorite characters. Everyone does. But that being said, I will drop my favorite characters is they aren't being written well. That's just insane, in my opinion.
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  10. #100
    Completely sauced... klinton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulk_Is View Post
    While true, I've found that some things ultimately remain the same. I never thought I'd ever have the stomach for street-level characters, but one day I got into one, and things kind of opened up there. But, there are some characters of the street-level variety that remind why I'll never truely be a fan of street-level fare.



    How long is long term? I believe the last 15 years (at least) of Hulk stories have mostly been underwhelming and severely lacking. There's definitely huge gaps in my physical Hulk collection due to this. I couldn't personally be OK with completing the run due to trust in the character.

    I'm always reading multiple titles, so having to drop one title for another simply isn't a problem. I may be disappointed in probably having to drop Iron Man (NOW), but reading multiple titles (which are more likely more suitable) alleviates that disappointment.

    Comic reading for me is about settling in comfortably, not having to base your purchases on sheer trust, loyalty, or support.


    Yeah, 15 years is a long time to hold on. I love Superman, but my Superman collection is like swiss cheese, except with more holes than cheese. He really has very few 'good' stories in practice. I can see Hulk being the same (I've never been a Hulk fan, but I'm liking the new book. I picked it up for sassy Maria Hill in the first issue, and have hopped on board for now).

    I agree with that last part, and think we're probably more or less the same. My pain threshold is a lot higher than yours though, I think. It takes a lot for me to abandon a favorite character (I 'just one more issue' it for years, hahaha). :p

    I don't tend to casually follow books as a rule. I stick to what I like. My Marvel pull list belies this at the moment, but it'll settle down in a few months. I'm just on a Marvel high this year I think. :D
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  11. #101
    BUY LOKI: AGENT OF ASGARD Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    BOTH are important; but I tend to care more about characters than creative teams. The reason being so many writers can please me writing my favourite characters; but even my favourite creative teams can't always please me, when writing characters I don't care for. Bad art bothers me, but rarely enough to drop a comic (the only one I dropped purely for the art was the anime rubbish in Young Avengers/Runaways: Secret Invasion and Ms. Marvel AFTER Moonstone left). Yes, there are some writers who will do a better job; but I adore many characters, and find many writers can do a decent/fun job with them.

    To put it another way: I would TRY a Moonstone solo written by Loeb (my least favourite Marvel writer) and art by Greg Land (my least favourite artists). I would NOT try a series starring Steve Rogers, Wolverine, Beast, the Hulk, Jewel, Kyle and Spiderman even if it was written by Fabian (my favourite Marvel writer) and art by Mike Deodato (my favourite artist)
    "I don't know how to please you Lord, but I think the fact I try to please you, pleases you."

  12. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    To put it another way: I would TRY a Moonstone solo written by Loeb (my least favourite Marvel writer) and art by Greg Land (my least favourite artists). I would NOT try a series starring Steve Rogers, Wolverine, Beast, the Hulk, Jewel, Kyle and Spiderman even if it was written by Fabian (my favourite Marvel writer) and art by Mike Deodato (my favourite artist)
    It's a gamble.

    I really enjoyed Jason Aarons work on Scalped and PunisherMax. Even though I have no interest in Thor, I was willing to give Aaron a chance. That chance paid off in spades, it's one of my favorite Marvel Now books. I still don't necessarily like Thor, but the book is very entertaining.

    I really enjoyed Remenders work on Uncanny X-Force. I don't care for any of the characters on the Uncanny Avengers roster. Tried it, and it didn't work out. Not a big deal, but at least I gave it a chance. Thankfully his Cap run is better.

    Sometimes it pays off, sometimes it doesn't. Like you, I don't see anything compelling about Wolverine. But that didn't stop me from enjoying Old Man Logan. If I heard Hopeless was writing a phenomenal Cable and the X-Force book (I can't even type that without shuttering), I'd at the very least see what was going on. I don't know what that says about me or my personality but I'm willing to give people a chance if they have earned my respect. I understand a lot of people can't do that, but it is rather interesting to see how people make their purchasing decisions.

  13. #103
    Member Clea's Avatar
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    I care about characters and creators in equal but different ways. I have a small set of characters that I really love and try to follow in any story they appear but if I don't like how the character is written or the art is truly horrendous, I won't buy the book. I don't feel like I need to have a complete collection of every appearance of a character. There are some writers whose work I admire so much that I will always at least try out a new series that they're working on to see if I like the story. Sometimes I 'll stick with the new book, sometimes not. For example I picked up Saga simply because Brian Vaughan was writing it and I love and look forward to each new issue. I picked up Hawkeye because Matt Fraction was the writer but dropped it after 3 issues because I just don't give a fig about Hawkeye. The book is quite well written but I have zero interest in the main character. 'll often buy random issues of titles I don't normally read simply for the art, too.

  14. #104
    MXAAGVNIEETRO were right The Black Guardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    If someone that is loyal to the character keeps buying the book, why would anything change? Do you understand where I'm coming from?
    The same exact problem comes with respect to the creators, too. Then we get extended travesties like Brubaker and Fraction on X-Men.
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  15. #105
    Senior Member PupsOfWar's Avatar
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    I get most intrigued by the right creative team precipitously joined to the right characters.

    Matt Fraction is a cool writer, but when applied to something like Thor he just does not work that well.

    Jonathan Hickman is a cool writer, but I don't know if I'd be that interested in seeing him write Daredevil.

    Jason Aaron is a cool writer, but I wouldn't be that interested in him writing Captain America.

    There are impressions of which writers are suited to which things that can only be broken if one sees a really strong pitch and other evidence that the writer has put a lot of thought into building a narrative that reconciles their style with the dispirate characters, rather than trying to force the characters into unrelated and pre-conceived templates.

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