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  1. #31
    Status Quo Cowards Thanos Classic's Avatar
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    Infinity against the league in a straight up fight ends up with Thanos massacring them. Warlock might also be alive if most opening attacks are aimed at Thanos. The fight there wouldn't really be close given they can do nothing to Thanos and he can casually one shot al of them. On the other hand, the Infinity watch with the gems minus Thanos results in blitz. Actaually, I figure warlock has faster than light reaction times, but I can't remember a single scan to prove it. If he does though, he'd need some anti-speed steal feat. Personally, I'd peg good enough energy manipulation and some Thanos light feats good enough, but I'm not sure what others think of that.

    Interestingly, if minus Thanos means the Gem holders get switched around and Warlock gets the space gem (assuming he knows how to use it, which he should), he could potentially solo.

    Neither is really close per say..
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  2. #32
    Elder Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Becoming An Anthropologist View Post
    Infinity against the league in a straight up fight ends up with Thanos massacring them. Warlock might also be alive if most opening attacks are aimed at Thanos. The fight there wouldn't really be close given they can do nothing to Thanos and he can casually one shot al of them. On the other hand, the Infinity watch with the gems minus Thanos results in blitz. Actaually, I figure warlock has faster than light reaction times, but I can't remember a single scan to prove it. If he does though, he'd need some anti-speed steal feat. Personally, I'd peg good enough energy manipulation and some Thanos light feats good enough, but I'm not sure what others think of that.

    Interestingly, if minus Thanos means the Gem holders get switched around and Warlock gets the space gem (assuming he knows how to use it, which he should), he could potentially solo.

    Neither is really close per say..
    As long as they go for the soul gem last, no, the ridiculously sped up ftl JLA with the mind, time, power (which should be given to Kyle, really, if you want to see great things with it as far as power gem+gl ring) and space gems, along with all their telelportation, power gloves, phantom zone projectors, and sun dipped Superman should take out Thanos before he can do anything with the reality gem just fine, unless you're again trying to fascinatingly argue that despite comics, Thanos is immune to being knocked out and otherwise being affected by anything less than skyfathers, who themselves can't really do all that much to him.

    They have one sided prep to be ready from the word go all powered up and targets eyed.

    Quite frankly if they do grab the soul gem before going to Thanos, they still technically win via soulrip, which then proceeeds to epically insure that whoever took the soul gem falls to its influence (at the ricockulous speeds they are operating, person would have a bit of time before the evil, they should get in some acting), and turns on and takes out his brethren. But hey, last person standing is the ftl JLA soul vampire, so that's a technical win.

    Going for efficiency, what they want to do for Thanos is give the Flash the space and soul gems once they get them, maybe also have him speed steal the JLA for a little bit of a boost, along with reciting the Quick formula equasion during the prep time. At that point even just drawing on it like the Runner did will make the Flash ridiculously faster, though he'd already be faster than Thanos at that point anyway, he can then just hit the guy with the soulrip, and done. He is of course now the JLA Flash posessed by the gem soul vampire and will kill his own team, but a win is a win.
    Last edited by Pendaran; 01-15-2013 at 08:40 PM.

  3. #33
    Elder Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Jibberish View Post
    Which one of these alternative scenarios would be closer then: Infinity Watch without the Infinity Gems vs. The Justice League in a straight up fight, or The Infinity Watch with the gems, but without Thanos against the League?
    Dude, here's the thing, Becoming an Anthropologist has argued that Thanos is only somewhat behind Galactus scale, was doing just fine in his fight with Odin, that a fight against Tyrant where Thanos was powering himself up shows Thanos' durability, and that Thanos cannot be defeated or otherwise knocked out by anything short of things beyond Odin thereby. That the times where he has been knocked out for some reason don't count for that Thanos can be knocked out. You have to take anything he claims about this entire thread with a grain of salt.

    The Infinity Watch with the gems and without Thanos get blitzed to fuck by the JLA. The Watch without the gems and with Thanos in a straight fight, yes, take the JLA in a non prep fight, out of that they can't hurt or otherwise affect Thanos with just what is innate to them, whereas he has no such problem.

    In the overall thread scenario you provide, they take Thanos and the Watch just fine. They just then get wiped out by the JLA soul gem vampire thing.
    Last edited by Pendaran; 01-15-2013 at 08:45 PM.

  4. #34
    Member Evil Sneak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    Dude, here's the thing, Becoming an Anthropologist has argued that Thanos is only somewhat behind Galactus scale, was doing just fine in his fight with Odin, that a fight against Tyrant where Thanos was powering himself up shows Thanos' durability, and that Thanos cannot be defeated or otherwise knocked out by anything short of things beyond Odin thereby. That the times where he has been knocked out for some reason don't count for that Thanos can be knocked out. You have to take anything he claims about this entire thread with a grain of salt.

    The Infinity Watch with the gems and without Thanos get blitzed to fuck by the JLA. The Watch without the gems and with Thanos in a straight fight, yes, take the JLA in a non prep fight, out of that they can't hurt or otherwise affect Thanos with just what is innate to them, whereas he has no such problem.

    In the overall thread scenario you provide, they take Thanos and the Watch just fine. They just then get wiped out by the JLA soul gem vampire thing.
    You know that might not even be a win, because Warlock has a nasty habit of retreating into the Soul Gem when his body is mangled/unusable, letting the Soul Gem corrupt the current user then pop out reconstruct his body and get on with his day.

  5. #35
    Elder Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Sneak View Post
    You know that might not even be a win, because Warlock has a nasty habit of retreating into the Soul Gem when his body is mangled/unusable, letting the Soul Gem corrupt the current user then pop out reconstruct his body and get on with his day.
    It depends on the nature of how they particularly take Warlock down I would suppose.

  6. #36
    Status Quo Cowards Thanos Classic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    As long as they go for the soul gem last, no, the ridiculously sped up ftl JLA with the mind, time, power (which should be given to Kyle, really, if you want to see great things with it as far as power gem+gl ring) and space gems, along with all their telelportation, power gloves, phantom zone projectors, and sun dipped Superman should take out Thanos before he can do anything with the reality gem just fine, unless you're again trying to fascinatingly argue that despite comics, Thanos is immune to being knocked out and otherwise being affected by anything less than skyfathers, who themselves can't really do all that much to him.

    They have one sided prep to be ready from the word go all powered up and targets eyed.

    Quite frankly if they do grab the soul gem before going to Thanos, they still technically win via soulrip, which then proceeeds to epically insure that whoever took the soul gem falls to its influence (at the ricockulous speeds they are operating, person would have a bit of time before the evil, they should get in some acting), and turns on and takes out his brethren. But hey, last person standing is the ftl JLA soul vampire, so that's a technical win.

    Going for efficiency, what they want to do for Thanos is give the Flash the space and soul gems once they get them, maybe also have him speed steal the JLA for a little bit of a boost, along with reciting the Quick formula equasion during the prep time. At that point even just drawing on it like the Runner did will make the Flash ridiculously faster, though he'd already be faster than Thanos at that point anyway, he can then just hit the guy with the soulrip, and done. He is of course now the JLA Flash posessed by the gem soul vampire and will kill his own team, but a win is a win.
    OP limited them to 1 day of prep in DC before being ported over to Marvel and basically being immediately (within reason) discovered by a non PIS Thanos, Warlock, or even Moonie with the mind gem. Likewise, given there is no indication the league start close, they could very well be light years away. So once in Marvel they all get their minds torn apart by Moon, or soul ripped by Warlock, or dealt with by reality gem Thanos before they get within attack range of Infinity Watch. Infinity watch outside of Pip and Thanos tended to hang around in the same area to go address threats most of time as well.

    As for Power gem GL, what sort of power boost exactly are you granting Kyle is going to get. I doubt it's enough against Thanos considering specifically placing the boost of the power gem by itself isn't exactly easy. Not sure Kyle be able to use the Space Gem close to its full potential considering a guy with powers better than Kyle wasn't really doing so. Regardless, Kyle never gets either gem given the watch is alerted once their in marvel universe.

    Sun dipped Superman (1 day or week) isn't doing anything to Thanos. Going by Superman 1 million Clark need to be hanging around pretty long for the Sun dip to matter at all.

    Why on earth would the (no gem) league survive a confrontation against Soul Gem Warlock. He has chilling in a black hole, and not doing so bad in brawls against Drax, Thanos Clone, and Mephisto in his realm. He can revive himself instantly. He has enough power (sheer strength or energy manipulation) to take down any of them. Psychic assaults of MM level are laughable to him. Finally, as previously noted, I'd say he might (should be) resistant to speed steal. He's got great energy manipulation, is outside the influence of destiny, and has outright time manipulation-rift-dimension messing feats with the soul gem.

    In the end though, if they manage to actually beat Warlock, whoever gets the Soul gem pretty much massacres the rest of the team right away. Wally resisting the Soul Gem for any prolonged period of time would require some pretty insane willpower or astral feats or something thereabouts...
    Last edited by Thanos Classic; 01-16-2013 at 12:53 PM.
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  7. #37
    Elder Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    The OP said this:

    OP limited them to 1 day of prep in DC before being ported over to Marvel and basically being immediately (within reason) discovered by a non PIS Thanos, Warlock, or even Moonie with the mind gem.
    What that would mean as far as anything relevant anyone has that can go off immediately, is that Gamora would get visions of them with the time gem. This does not help them against team FTL teleporters rolling up on them on Monster Island within basically moments of arrival (if this is the days where they are the Watch) or where all else FTL Green Lantern or Martian Manhunter can scan for them being, neverminding they also had prep as far as such things. Everybody falls within moments as again, FTL teleporting death squad, hopping around where needed within moment of arrival is not going to be a problem.

    Likewise, given there is no indication the league start close, they could very well be light years away.
    Kyle, alone, who can already fly reaaly fast and can tow guests in a bubble, has FTL reaction time and further speed stacked onto them, attempting this sort of handicap is irrelevant.

    So once in Marvel they all get their minds torn apart by Moon, or soul ripped by Warlock, or dealt with by reality gem Thanos before they get within attack range of Infinity Watch.
    First two are statues to one sided prepped JLA, last guy has nothing that will note them getting onto what they are doing in any way that will help him in any relevant time frame.

    Sun dipped Superman (1 day or week) isn't doing anything to Thanos. Going by Superman 1 million Clark need to be hanging around pretty long for the Sun dip to matter at all.
    Um, Superman dipping himself into the sun has in comics been shown to provide a massive boost over far less time, unless you are trying to say he needs to become full out golden skin Superman Prime here.

    Why on earth would the (no gem) league survive a confrontation against Soul Gem Warlock.
    He's a statue to them.

    He has chilling in a black hole, and not doing so bad in brawls against Drax, Thanos Clone, and Mephisto in his realm. He can revive himself instantly. He has enough power (sheer strength or energy manipulation) to take down any of them. Psychic assaults of MM level are laughable to him. Finally, as previously noted, I'd say he might (should be) resistant to speed steal. He's got great energy manipulation, is outside the influence of destiny, and has outright time manipulation-rift-dimension messing feats with the soul gem.
    He's a statue to them. They are powered up and loaded for bear with everything from phantom zone projectors to items straight up empowering them to being speed boosted by the Flash. Post Him Warlock has been hurt by everything from shots from Thor to Ulik's uglier larger kin, to sent flying from shots from Quasar. They can certainly hurt him physically just fine, and being ridiculously faster than him and in several cases physically amped up..

    Finally, as previously noted, I'd say he might (should be) resistant to speed steal.
    He's done nothing to suggest this.

    He has chilling in a black hole
    And this was when?

    and Mephisto in his realm.
    This required him to be able to bring the cosmic artifact on his head to bear. No such luck here.

    Regardless, Kyle never gets either gem given the watch is alerted once their in marvel universe.
    Gamora having some visions of an FTL acting teleporting death squad doesn't really help her in that given how fast her thoughts process, or even, at best, Moondragon's, they are getting these warnings as the FTL teleporting death squad comes in at them to wreck them. When this was not one sided prep, she could have had these visions while the JLA were gathering their shit/powering themselves up, and that would have been a thing. Sadly, not the case in this scenario.

    In the end though, if they manage to actually beat Warlock, whoever gets the Soul gem pretty much massacres the rest of the team right away. Wally resisting the Soul Gem for any prolonged period of time would require some pretty insane willpower or astral feats or something thereabouts...
    It took a second or two for Reed upon having touched the soul gem for it to then reach out and play the bongos on his mind. The Flash can, in the span of a few seconds, do a great deal of crap like, say, soulrip Thanos. He then ultimately kills the JLA, sure, and goes on a universal souleating rampage, but a win is a win barring them having taken out Warlock in a way that let his essence retreat into the gem and emerge some span of time later.

    If they want to be somewhat less efficient, they can always just instead have the Flash give basically all his Quick equasion boosted up speed to the Martian Manhunter with the space and soul gems instead, who can hold out longer. And then he kills everyone instead but see the case of win is a win.
    Last edited by Pendaran; 01-16-2013 at 01:50 PM.

  8. #38
    Elder Member Shellhead's Avatar
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    Or the JLA could get ahold of the Time gem first and send somebody to get rid of Thanos while he is still in the crib. Wait, if this is a scenario fight, I suppose the JLA wouldn't do that.
    "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
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  9. #39
    Elder Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shellhead View Post
    Or the JLA could get ahold of the Time gem first and send somebody to get rid of Thanos while he is still in the crib. Wait, if this is a scenario fight, I suppose the JLA wouldn't do that.
    They'd just create an alternate timeline by doing that, don't think the time gem can override the laws of Marvel time travel the way the forever crystal and Doom's time platform can.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    Ring scan or mind reading should both get the job done on that front.
    Don't forget X-ray vision, lasso of truth...
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  11. #41
    Status Quo Cowards Thanos Classic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    The OP said this:



    What that would mean as far as anything relevant anyone has that can go off immediately, is that Gamora would get visions of them with the time gem. This does not help them against team FTL teleporters rolling up on them on Monster Island within basically moments of arrival (if this is the days where they are the Watch) or where all else FTL Green Lantern or Martian Manhunter can scan for them being, neverminding they also had prep as far as such things. Everybody falls within moments as again, FTL teleporting death squad, hopping around where needed within moment of arrival is not going to be a problem.



    Kyle, alone, who can already fly reaaly fast and can tow guests in a bubble, has FTL reaction time and further speed stacked onto them, attempting this sort of handicap is irrelevant.



    First two are statues to one sided prepped JLA, last guy has nothing that will note them getting onto what they are doing in any way that will help him in any relevant time frame.



    Um, Superman dipping himself into the sun has in comics been shown to provide a massive boost over far less time, unless you are trying to say he needs to become full out golden skin Superman Prime here.



    He's a statue to them.



    He's a statue to them. They are powered up and loaded for bear with everything from phantom zone projectors to items straight up empowering them to being speed boosted by the Flash. Post Him Warlock has been hurt by everything from shots from Thor to Ulik's uglier larger kin, to sent flying from shots from Quasar. They can certainly hurt him physically just fine, and being ridiculously faster than him and in several cases physically amped up..



    He's done nothing to suggest this.



    And this was when?



    This required him to be able to bring the cosmic artifact on his head to bear. No such luck here.



    Gamora having some visions of an FTL acting teleporting death squad doesn't really help her in that given how fast her thoughts process, or even, at best, Moondragon's, they are getting these warnings as the FTL teleporting death squad comes in at them to wreck them. When this was not one sided prep, she could have had these visions while the JLA were gathering their shit/powering themselves up, and that would have been a thing. Sadly, not the case in this scenario.



    It took a second or two for Reed upon having touched the soul gem for it to then reach out and play the bongos on his mind. The Flash can, in the span of a few seconds, do a great deal of crap like, say, soulrip Thanos. He then ultimately kills the JLA, sure, and goes on a universal souleating rampage, but a win is a win barring them having taken out Warlock in a way that let his essence retreat into the gem and emerge some span of time later.

    If they want to be somewhat less efficient, they can always just instead have the Flash give basically all his Quick equasion boosted up speed to the Martian Manhunter with the space and soul gems instead, who can hold out longer. And then he kills everyone instead but see the case of win is a win.
    The league will not know where the infinity watch is. Kyle will have issues scanning or locking onto energy/ entity outside his known universe. MM can't successfully scan for people light years away. He's not Moondragon. The bottom line is Infinity Watch has plenty of time to react. It's not a handicap. Op ports the Jla over to Marvel making no mention of them knowing where the Watch is. Watch has alarms go off the instant the league appears.

    Sun dip wouldn't be that relevant unless where moving near Superman 1 Million levels. That would take quite a long time.

    Speed Steal VS Soul Gem Warlock - Energy manipulation, molecular manipulation, instant reconstruction of his body, immunity to destiny, time manipulation***, and dimensional manipulation. How exactly is this not good enough? +Warlock technically exist inside the soul gem and has shown the power to manipulate it from inside. This should really be good enough, I'd say. Sentry and Zoom are granted resistance on somewhat similar basis.


    Now, I 'll agree the league wins if everything goes off exactly as you're saying. However, I don't see it going that way.
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  12. #42
    Elder Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    The league will not know where the infinity watch is.
    They can determine where they are in moments if that.

    MM can't successfully scan for people light years away. He's not Moondragon. The bottom line is Infinity Watch has plenty of time to react.
    When the Infinity Watch were a team, they lived on Earth for most of their being a team. Why exactly are the JLA coming in light years away and why are you able to handwave this being so? This is neverminding that the rings /do/ have a ridiculous scanning range, and these people are operating at Flash speeds.

    The bottom line is Infinity Watch has plenty of time to react.
    Not by anything resembling logic unless you can get the OP to come in and say "they appear lightyears away from the Watch" and then also ignore "FTL Kyle Rayner aint gonna find em in what are to them moments and to him hours".

    Sun dip wouldn't be that relevant unless where moving near Superman 1 Million levels. That would take quite a long time.
    When alongside team powered up by speed and artifacts? It's relevant just fine.

    Speed Steal VS Soul Gem Warlock - Energy manipulation, molecular manipulation, instant reconstruction of his body, immunity to destiny, time manipulation***, and dimensional manipulation. How exactly is this not good enough? +Warlock technically exist inside the soul gem and has shown the power to manipulate it from inside. This should really be good enough, I'd say. Sentry and Zoom are granted resistance on somewhat similar basis.
    You can say that, but then you'd be pulling things out of nowhere. The Sentry and Zoom are granted resistance on a nowhere similar basis, they are granted it for having their superspeed come from time distortion, which the Flash explicitly can't steal as far as sources of superspeed.

    And like the black hole thing that got no answer, when and under what circumstances has Warlock manipulated time? When and under what circumstances has Warlock instantly reformed his body? /Thanos/ gets a pass because he has actually shown wide scale nigh insta resistance to shit like being staggeringly transmuted/warped by the barriers set up around the Inbetweener's prison as far as his Eternal given personal control over his own molecules to the point of being crystalized or hollowed out such that he restores from it. Warlock has done similar when?

    This should really be good enough, I'd say.
    And you'd be wrong and apparently retconning whole posts about characters on this board to say it. When did Warlock have superspeed based in time distortion ala Zoom or the Sentry? What does anything you have said have to do with that?

    How exactly is this not good enough?
    Because it either has nothing to do with the speed stealing effect or in no way resembles the things the Flash explicitly can't steal, or the reasons given why others should be able to resist. When has Warlock demonstrated total control over his own molecules to the degree Thanos has?

    However, I don't see it going that way.
    Unfortunately, your not seeing that way is not actually based in anything.
    Last edited by Pendaran; 01-17-2013 at 12:56 PM.

  13. #43
    Status Quo Cowards Thanos Classic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    They can determine where they are in moments if that.
    No they can't. You saying they can does not make it so.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    When the Infinity Watch were a team, they lived on Earth for most of their being a team. Why exactly are the JLA coming in light years away and why are you able to handwave this being so? This is neverminding that the rings /do/ have a ridiculous scanning range, and these people are operating at Flash speeds.
    There was zero specification of distance or exact location by the Op. Your claim of distance is hand waving as well. In hindsight, Op should be asked for clarity. But if you wish to bicker for bickering sake, Infinity watch is most current version via the rules unless stated otherwise. Those most recent versions are no where remotely close to earth.

    As I said previously (which you ignored) ,the ring HAS shown extreme difficulty dealing with energies not in the Oa database/ of different universe / older than the universe. This HAS been consistent through Geoff John's writing them. Dc isn't part of Marvel so 2/3 of those apply. Now, when and where did Kyle detect things he has no knowledge on that are from another universe? And why does this discount multiple instance of multiple GL failing miserably to do so?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post

    Not by anything resembling logic unless you can get the OP to come in and say "they appear lightyears away from the Watch" and then also ignore "FTL Kyle Rayner aint gonna find em in what are to them moments and to him hours".
    Basically you've decided make yourself the op and claim authority over where people start, and than mock me for not agreeing with your decison. This is especially pointless since I said if they start close enough the Jla would win. lol


    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    When alongside team powered up by speed and artifacts? It's relevant just fine.
    Artifacts? They aren't getting any of the gems. Superman without them isn't beating Thanos.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    You can say that, but then you'd be pulling things out of nowhere. The Sentry and Zoom are granted resistance on a nowhere similar basis, they are granted it for having their superspeed come from time distortion, which the Flash explicitly can't steal as far as sources of superspeed.
    You do not know what I meant by similar. Stop assuming. What they have in common are powers related to time and demonstrations of resistance to it. In Warlock's own series, when time was frozen, he was moving just fine. He didn't have to activate shit. He just shrugged off time freeze. He travelled through time to defeat magus. These abilities are specifically because of the soul gem. The time fuckery comes from the soul gem and is inextricably linked to Warlock. More recently, anni conquest, Warlock natural power has also utilize quantum magic (fusing timestreams together). He a time honored bastard through and through.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    And like the black hole thing that got no answer, when and under what circumstances has Warlock manipulated time? When and under what circumstances has Warlock instantly reformed his body? /Thanos/ gets a pass because he has actually shown wide scale nigh insta resistance to shit like being staggeringly transmuted/warped by the barriers set up around the Inbetweener's prison as far as his Eternal given personal control over his own molecules to the point of being crystalized or hollowed out such that he restores from it. Warlock has done similar when?
    black hole traversing= when trying to get over to earth to fight Star theif in issue 14 (pg 14) of The Power of Warlock. Time manipulation=/ ignoring time. Time got frozen by Count Abyss using the time Gem and Warlock didn't (infinity watch issue 32). Other than that he's time travelled multiple times. reforming=/ infinity gauntlet issue 3 when the abstracts were talking and galactus fired off a go away pest blast. We see Warlock essentially vaporized on panel, and up and kicking 2 later. Resistance=/ while not able to do anything there, Warlock WAS able to exist/endure in the Inbetweener realm for centuries (Warlock issue 8 although there's the whole not him but future him one could argue as counter point). Last=/ He's overcome the Magus Church thing on sheer will power, recovered from being turned to stone by mephisto in his realm during the whole SS must save Shabala ordeal., and in infinty Crusade ignores the effects of distorted actuality.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post

    Because it either has nothing to do with the speed stealing effect or in no way resembles the things the Flash explicitly can't steal, or the reasons given why others should be able to resist. When has Warlock demonstrated total control over his own molecules to the degree Thanos has?
    answered this already. But to add to it, the notion if you haven't demonstrated control exactly at Thanos capacity (as in his feats exactly) discounting you from resisting speed steal just because wihout actually weighting that characters feats on their own merits is a poor standard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post

    Unfortunately, your not seeing that way is not actually based in anything.
    Nope. you simply disagree with me and have chosen to be rather derisive in doing so. There is no point discussing the outcome until Op returns to clarify starting distance/location.
    Last edited by Thanos Classic; 01-18-2013 at 05:33 PM.
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  14. #44
    Elder Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    No they can't. You saying they can does not make it so.
    The guy saying "the Justice league will appear lightyears away because I say so" saying something like this is ironic. Green Lantern is accelerated to Flash speeds here. The shiny bling he wears can track people across star systems.


    There was zero specification of distance or exact location by the Op. Your claim of distance is hand waving as well. In hindsight, Op should be asked for clarity. But if you wish to bicker for bickering sake, Infinity watch is most current version via the rules unless stated otherwise. Those most recent versions are no where remotely close to earth.
    The most recent versions don't have the Infinity Gems, so wow does this become easier for the JLA. The most recent versions are in some cases outright dead. You are using the word "handwaving" incorrectly.

    Here, for elucidation: Handwaving would be "they appear lightyears away" and when asked why, having no reason whatsoever to provide. Not handwaving would be, when asked why they might be in a particular locale, having an answer actually based in things that have happened in comics, like were the Infinity Watch were when they were a team and actually had the gems.

    You are making terrible analogies or just not understanding how one thing compares to another.

    Or, once again, why do the JLA appear lightyears away from the Watch other than "I say they do". "Most recent versions"? They don't have the gems then, at all, that doesn't work.

    Basically you've decided make yourself the op and claim authority over where people start, and than mock me for not agreeing with your decison. This is especially pointless since I said if they start close enough the Jla would win. lol
    I'm sorry that comics depicting where the Infinity Watch lived when they were a team is something you can only understand as "claiming authority over where people start, lol".

    As I said previously (which you ignored) ,the ring HAS shown extreme difficulty dealing with energies not in the Oa database/ of different universe / older than the universe. This HAS been consistent through Geoff John's writing them. Dc isn't part of Marvel so 2/3 of those apply. Now, when and where did Kyle detect things he has no knowledge on that are from another universe? And why does this discount multiple instance of multiple GL failing miserably to do so?
    You get that at absolute minimum, Kyle has the equivalent of hours and hours from his perspective once they arrive to scan for the gems and their wielders while said people aren't even having their synapses fire. You seem for some reason to keep ignoring this.

    Artifacts? They aren't getting any of the gems. Superman without them isn't beating Thanos.
    The group of statues to them who they can locate and blitz out/speed steal/however you prefer to hell are going to lose their gems right quick.


    You do not know what I meant by similar. Stop assuming. What they have in common are powers related to time and demonstrations of resistance to it. In Warlock's own series, when time was frozen, he was moving just fine. He didn't have to activate shit. He just shrugged off time freeze. He travelled through time to defeat magus. These abilities are specifically because of the soul gem. The time fuckery comes from the soul gem and is inextricably linked to Warlock. More recently, anni conquest, Warlock natural power has also utilize quantum magic (fusing timestreams together). He a time honored bastard through and through.
    Does Warlock have superspeed based in time distortion, yes or no. If the answer is no, how is that similar to people the Flash can't take the superspeed of away, because he explicitly can't take speed that is based in distorting time.

    But since we're there, just to pick out one thing particularly, when has Warlock when not massively powered up fused timestreams together.

    What they have in common are powers related to time and demonstrations of resistance to it
    That is not why the Flash can't speed steal them, you are basically making things up at this point as far as why it has been provided for them that they can't. You cannot logically claim "well if he can't from Zoom and the Sentry, then he can't from Warlock, even though the reason he can't from them, they have time distortion based superspeed, is nothing Warlock has ever shown."

    And again, if the reason they can't be speed stolen is they have a specific type of speed the Flash can't steal, how is that "similar" to what you are talking about for Warlock, at all, if he does not have the same?

    black hole traversing= when trying to get over to earth to fight Star theif in issue 14 (pg 14) of The Power of Warlock. Time manipulation=/ ignoring time. Time got frozen by Count Abyss using the time Gem and Warlock didn't (infinity watch issue 32). Other than that he's time travelled multiple times. reforming=/ infinity gauntlet issue 3 when the abstracts were talking and galactus fired off a go away pest blast. We see Warlock essentially vaporized on panel, and up and kicking 2 later. Resistance=/ while not able to do anything there, Warlock WAS able to exist/endure in the Inbetweener realm for centuries (Warlock issue 8 although there's the whole not him but future him one could argue as counter point). Last=/ He's overcome the Magus Church thing on sheer will power, recovered from being turned to stone by mephisto in his realm during the whole SS must save Shabala ordeal., and in infinty Crusade ignores the effects of distorted actuality.
    ......... you're serious. What we see is the blast hit Warlock, and then the next thing we see is him on Galactus head. The most people have ever tried to use that for is Warlock's previously demonstrated capacity for cosmic scale stealth and some nebulous level of superspeed in that he has otherwise pulled off basically just appear in front of people and various other ninja shit despite people looking out for him. This is because trying to actually use it to claim that Warlock can remake his body from nothing would fly in the face of Warlock having powers that are nothing like that, and otherwise needing things like long term cocooning to remake his body over and over. But apparently those have all been the low showings compared to that one from his entire career.

    You get that in the same Infinity Gauntlet series you are referring to, Warlock had to bring himself back from the dead by mentally occupying a dead guy, then making a cocoon to turn the dead guy into himself. But that was probably a low showing, he could have just willed himself a body out of nothing.

    Warlock WAS able to exist/endure in the Inbetweener realm for centuries (Warlock issue 8 although there's the whole not him but future him one could argue as counter point).
    How is it you feel that something involving one, a future Warlock, and two, something /not/ involving the distortions Thanos had to deal with to /get/ to the Inbetweener's realm is any kind of showing, that demonstrates anything, about anything? Actually being in the Inbetweener's realm is not the same thing as being fucked up in repeated ways of horrific transmuting by the barriers around the Inbetweener's realm. This does not show anything of any relevance, to anything you are trying to claim.

    There's.. so much wrong otherwise in the things you're citing that I'll get to, but I want to pick out the other really glaring one first:

    recovered from being turned to stone by mephisto in his realm during the whole SS must save Shabala ordeal
    Are you talking about Adam Warlock/Silver Surfer resurrection? If you are, do you understand that this never actually happened? That Mephisto sealed Warlock in Hellfire ash? That it took him even so nearly the entire comic to break out of it? That both he and other characters referred to him being trapped in something that could be chipped away at? That he was shown breaking the seal off himself?

    That even if it did, when asked if you can show Warlock having resistances on the scale of Thanos in order to get a similar claim for being able to resist the speed steal, you show, compared to a guy who just goes "lol no" to being altered, an incident where Warlock specifically had to take extended time to get out of something?

    But here, some scans:

    Here's the initial thing from Warlock/Surfer Resurrection 3:

    http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/3422/35581670.jpg

    I can see where you might think that was what happened, unless you then read the rest of the comic.

    Moondragon, is this something you can chip Warlock out of?

    http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/4632/20526788.jpg


    Adam Warlock, have you been turned to stone, or is this an imprisonment effect/shell around your body you are breaking out of via an energy blast from within, as if in support of Moondragon's statements on the nature of your near length of the comic long imprisonment

    http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/4340/84211872.jpg.



    Well, surely you're not going yourself to say you've overcome being held in check by solidified hellfire ash this whole time, surely you're going to talk about how you were turned to stone and not that.

    http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/2788/32272069.jpg

    Oh. You are going to talk about Hellfire Ash. While blasting away chunks of crap from you. As though you have blasted out of something.

    So, yeah, before anything else, what are you talking about? Is there some other comic you are referring to? Because the "save shalla bal" thing was Warlock/Surfer resurrection, and nothing like what you are talking about happened in it.
    Last edited by Pendaran; 01-19-2013 at 05:16 AM.

  15. #45
    Elder Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    as I'm over in word count, I will add here:

    Sigh, I apologize to the mods for going 2 scans over, but there was no other way to give the full context to debunk what Becoming was trying to claim.

    I won't go three scans over, but the comic also has Warlock noting that his entire oomph in this place to do what he does at all is coming from that it is a spiritual based realm, and the soul gem gives warlock mastery over spirits and souls.

    So ignoring for a moment everything from what actually happened to how long it took Warlock to do anything to free himself, /everything Warlock does in this place is special circumstances/.

    In light of all that. /What/? How does this possibly show that Warlock has resistances similar to Thanos, particularly of similar potency? I want to just start with this one. I'll get to the others.

    Alternatively, is there some other comic you are referring to where this happened?
    Last edited by Pendaran; 01-19-2013 at 04:19 AM.

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