Batman and Robin #16 Preview/Discussion

[thwhtGuardian]

Remember when Damian thought Oberon Sexton was Bruce Wayne?

Worst Detective Ever.

A lot of people here did as well if I remember correctly, it was fairly ambiguous after all.

[JasonTodd428]

I'm trying to be fair with this issue I really am and I really like Tomasi's take on the Joker but I pretty much couldn't stand the bulk of this issue which I blame on the overblown dialogue, Damian's characterization and several other issues I had with the book. I only picked up these last two issue because of the tie in and out of a vain hope that the writing had gotten better since I really wanted to like the book. Appears this is not to be so I'll bid adieu (again) to this title until a new creative team takes over. I don't care what tie in comes next.

[Retro315]

I liked this issue just fine. I'm really starting to judge this book less harshly just by the fact that it feels like Batman and Robin from two years ago.

[nosocialize100]

I was never sold that Damian could be fooled so easily concerning bats being actual batman.

[thwhtGuardian]

I liked this issue just fine. I'm really starting to judge this book less harshly just by the fact that it feels like Batman and Robin from two years ago.

Even the art was reminiscent of the original run, I'll have to go back and find the page number but there was one image in particular that reminded me heavily of Quietly's style.

I was never sold that Damian could be fooled so easily concerning bats being actual batman.

Why not? Was there anything to suggest it wasn't him there on the page? The art looked identical to how Batman is normally portrayed and so was his fighting prowess, so it was obvious that in story he was meant to appear identical as well, and given the fact that Damian was drugged it is reasonable to assume that any minor discrepancies that may have existed between Bruce and the guy the Joker got to stand in for him would be lost on Damian due to his state of mind.

The fake out wasn't the least bit shocking, but I don't see how one could have a problem with Damian falling prey to it not only due to the given the circumstances bu also because he isn't aware of how common a trope that is in super hero comics so he has little reason to be skeptical.

[DrSimonHurt]

The only giveaway is that Bruce is wearing a cheaper knockoff of his costume. No seamlines, no armor parts besides gloves.

Damian should have been able to detect that Batman's fighting style was wrong, though. But he probably chalked most of that up to the Joker toxin.

Also, you guys seem to forget that Damian is 10. He's a little monster, but he's still a kid with the same fears as a child. Stop casting him as a miniature Deathstroke.

[Sissel]

It's certainly not the best comic I've ever read, but it's a solid issue. I specially love Gleason's portrayal of the Joker.

P.S: Am I the only one who's enjoying this book more than Snyder's one?

[Officersmile1466]

Batman and Robin has certainly been the most enjoyable of the tie ins to me (aside from Det 16 which I really loved for some reason). The story in this issue was more predictable than in the previous one but at least Joker looks like a disturbing mix of rotting flesh and creepy black holes.

[Desaad]

Gleason is amazing, but I just don't care for the whole endlessly grotesque feel of this book. It's a horror book, a freak show, a gross out. It's fine once in a while - with the Flamingo, for instance - but I'd like some variety to the type response they are trying to illicit.

A change in writer would be very, VERY welcome. C'mon BQM!!

[nosocialize100]

Why not? Was there anything to suggest it wasn't him there on the page? The art looked identical to how Batman is normally portrayed and so was his fighting prowess, so it was obvious that in story he was meant to appear identical as well, and given the fact that Damian was drugged it is reasonable to assume that any minor discrepancies that may have existed between Bruce and the guy the Joker got to stand in for him would be lost on Damian due to his state of mind.

The fake out wasn't the least bit shocking, but I don't see how one could have a problem with Damian falling prey to it not only due to the given the circumstances bu also because he isn't aware of how common a trope that is in super hero comics so he has little reason to be skeptical.

Because you can't trust Joker, ever. At least confirm it somehow. I was thinking maybe it had to do with the venom Joker injected in him with the dogs though.

[thwhtGuardian]

Because you can't trust Joker, ever. At least confirm it somehow. I was thinking maybe it had to do with the venom Joker injected in him with the dogs though.

There's no real reason to disbelieve him though, you're using information gleaned from being a reader to make that guess. Damian's a little kid, he's messed up on Joker Toxin, he just regained consciousness and he's been told this is Batman, it looks like Batman, and it appears to fight just like Batman and you expect him to believe otherwise?

I'm not saying that as a reader the twist should have been shocking, we've seen it a thousand times by now, but that doesn't mean that Damian's reaction wasn't believable and it was his reaction that was the point of the story not the fake out.

It's certainly not the best comic I've ever read, but it's a solid issue. I specially love Gleason's portrayal of the Joker.

P.S: Am I the only one who's enjoying this book more than Snyder's one?

You're not alone, I dropped Batman because I didn't care for the event, but I kept this and I'm loving it.

[nosocialize100]

There's no real reason to disbelieve him though, you're using information gleaned from being a reader to make that guess. Damian's a little kid, he's messed up on Joker Toxin, he just regained consciousness and he's been told this is Batman, it looks like Batman, and it appears to fight just like Batman and you expect him to believe otherwise?

You're right of course, I just think the writer could have given us something to help suspend the disbelief if you will.

[Seattle Freeze]

I loved B & R #15 but this issue just wasn't as good to me.

I liked that Damian was willing to sacrifice himself rather than kill his father. Once again he showed that Joker doesn't understand him. Still, even with the Joker venom, I think Damian should have been able to tell that Batman's fighting style was wrong.

[thwhtGuardian]

You're right of course, I just think the writer could have given us something to help suspend the disbelief if you will.

They did everything possible, he looked like Batman and he fought like Batman, what more was needed? For Damian to take a DNA sample mid-fight?

I loved B & R #15 but this issue just wasn't as good to me.

I liked that Damian was willing to sacrifice himself rather than kill his father. Once again he showed that Joker doesn't understand him. Still, even with the Joker venom, I think Damian should have been able to tell that Batman's fighting style was wrong.

I don't see why one would have assumed that, it's obvious that "Batman" was hopped up on Joker Toxin so any small differences in fighting style would easily be understood, on top of that Damian is infected as well so he's not exactly in top form either.

[Seattle Freeze]

Damain is thoroughly trained in the art of war and in different fighting styles. He has fought alongside his father and knows how he fights. Plus Damian had the presnece of mind to figure out how to get away. I would expect him to have the ability to identify the appearance and style of his father/mentor.