Avengers Assemble and its place in the 616?

[Will.S]

I think the obvious point that keeps being missed is, while Bendis is admittedly crap at acknowledging past continuity, in this case it's deliberate and not really contradictory. This book is intended as a way in to the Marvel Universe, and is therefore being kept simple, a deliberate writing choice which makes sense. There are many ways of telling a story: put Roy Thomas on this book, and doubtless the offending caption would have been twice the size and referred to "an assemblage of cosmic entities including the In-Betweener, embodiment of the universal balance, the mysterious Stranger, and several of the Elders of the Universe: (insert names here)". The first mention of Thanos wouldhave prompted a two page splash depicting every previous encounter the Avengers had had with him, and at some point the action would have stopped for several panels while Hawkeye inexplicably took time out to detail to the Black Widow the entire history of the name 'Zodiac', and of all the various criminal organizations to have used it, up to and including that bunch introduced several years ago who we never even saw properly and who never appeared again. And that would have been great, those of us who remembered those stories would love it, but it wouldn't actually have added anything to the story, and its ommission harms the story not at all: the Avengers know who Thanos is, they don't need to acknowledge it; they know this Zodiac is not the late Cornelius van Lunt's crew or Jake Fury's LMDs, they don't need to say so; and frankly, nobody cares (in the context of this story) who the In-Betweener is. When telling what's supposed to be an 'entry level' story, using story shorthand is fine.

Yeah, Marvel definitely set both Avengers Assemble and Battle Scars as sort of the ultimate gateway comics since you're given an accessible Avengers story that somewhat ties into the movie with Thanos and the origin of the new Nick Fury.

While both were pretty clumsily handled, I think if you gave both to a new reader (and maybe AvX) they would be in a pretty good position from Marvel Now ahead.

[The Avenging One]

Cosmic beings have been wonderfully inconsistent for a very long time. This really isn't that bad. Not really all that different than DnA referring to T&A, Celestials, and Galactus as "Abstracts".

[vitruvian]

I think the obvious point that keeps being missed is, while Bendis is admittedly crap at acknowledging past continuity, in this case it's deliberate and not really contradictory. This book is intended as a way in to the Marvel Universe, and is therefore being kept simple, a deliberate writing choice which makes sense. There are many ways of telling a story: put Roy Thomas on this book, and doubtless the offending caption would have been twice the size and referred to "an assemblage of cosmic entities including the In-Betweener, embodiment of the universal balance, the mysterious Stranger, and several of the Elders of the Universe: (insert names here)". The first mention of Thanos would have prompted a two page splash depicting every previous encounter the Avengers had had with him, and at some point the action would have stopped for several panels while Hawkeye inexplicably took time out to detail to the Black Widow the entire history of the name 'Zodiac', and of all the various criminal organizations to have used it, up to and including that bunch introduced several years ago who we never even saw properly and who never appeared again. And that would have been great, those of us who remembered those stories would love it, but it wouldn't actually have added anything to the story, and its omission harms the story not at all: the Avengers know who Thanos is, they don't need to acknowledge it; they know this Zodiac is not the late Cornelius van Lunt's crew or Jake Fury's LMDs, they don't need to say so; and frankly, nobody cares (in the context of this story) who the In-Betweener is. When telling what's supposed to be an 'entry level' story, using story shorthand is fine.

Who was asking for any of that?

Simple is great, wrong isn't, and there would have been absolutely no problem staying just as simple without being wrong.

It will remain contradictory no matter how many times you say it was simple or shorthand. Neither of those is even an argument for it not being contradictory, in fact, and I have yet to see one.

For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.

[tony ingram]

Who was asking for any of that?

Simple is great, wrong isn't, and there would have been absolutely no problem staying just as simple without being wrong.

It will remain contradictory no matter how many times you say it was simple or shorthand. Neither of those is even an argument for it not being contradictory, in fact, and I have yet to see one.

Fine. Stick to your guns. It still doesn't actually matter to anyone else, though. It was at worst a minor slip caused by omitting some fairly trivial information.

[vitruvian]

Fine. Stick to your guns. It still doesn't actually matter to anyone else, though. It was at worst a minor slip caused by omitting some fairly trivial information.

Wait, you're changing your story. Was it a slip (which doesn't bode well for Bendis taking over the cosmic books), or was it deliberate, like you said before? Can't be both.

[tony ingram]

Wait, you're changing your story. Was it a slip (which doesn't bode well for Bendis taking over the cosmic books), or was it deliberate, like you said before? Can't be both.

I would say the decision not to dwell on minor details was deliberate (and correct).

[Wellman]

How to describe Thanos for new readers...


Crazy, death loving alien bad guy, as strong as Thor and as smart (if not smarter) then Iron Man, that has tried to use various objects to destroy life in the universe as a symbol of love to death.


How hard is that? You don't have to display or give direct references to every major encounter, just talk about things like the characters have been there and done this before. My problem with Avengers Assemble, yeah, they don't talk like this is the case in the book. Hoping the next arc integrates trying to be new reader friendly and still claiming to be in the 616 better.

[vitruvian]

I would say the decision not to dwell on minor details was deliberate (and correct).

Then the words, 'Elders of the Universe' needn't have been used at all. Not dwelling on minor details is not the same thing as deliberately getting them wrong. E.g., every time a story is set in a state capital, it's not necessary to mention it, unless germane to the story (since characters are meeting with the governor or something) - but if you get a state capital wrong in a story, expect it to be considered a mistake, not a matter of 'not dwelling on minor details'.

[tony ingram]

Then the words, 'Elders of the Universe' needn't have been used at all. Not dwelling on minor details is not the same thing as deliberately getting them wrong. E.g., every time a story is set in a state capital, it's not necessary to mention it, unless germane to the story (since characters are meeting with the governor or something) - but if you get a state capital wrong in a story, expect it to be considered a mistake, not a matter of 'not dwelling on minor details'.

It was a convenient description for a group of characters, which was technically correct for the majority of them. You're just being pedantic.

[danielsan52]

I haven't read Avengers Assemble, but it looks to be the only Avengers title to give Spider-Woman any character development. Is it a part of regular continuity, or is it in it's own movie-universe??

[Lady_Alternate]

It's in the Marvel regular 616 universe, like all the other general titles. However it's continuity-lite in that it doesn't primarily concern itself with what's going on in other books in more than a general sense. Telling a good story and making a fun book comes first. However, there's nothing in Kelly Sue's issues so far that go against present 616 continuity.

Start with #9, don't bother with the initial eight issues.

[SAGAhawkguy]

I assumed that this series was a continuation of the movie. I could be horribly wrong though since I haven't read it.

[Spike-X]

I assumed that this series was a continuation of the movie. I could be horribly wrong though since I haven't read it.

You're horribly wrong.

[danielsan52]

Cool! Thanks, I look forward to picking up #9.

[Captain M]

I think this book is pretty good but I wonder one thing. Is it going on in an alternate universe?