Batgirl #16 Preview/Discussion

[Bluebow]

And if this is the case, I can totally understand why Gail balked.

Or plausible deniability?

[batGRRRl4ever]

Also, I wonder if what is in the dish has someting to do with Gail leaving. If it was an editorial disagreement, Gail admitted DC wanted more gratuitous carnage and Gail got sick of it, I wonder if the roommate's head is the special of the day.

I suddenly had a thought that since we saw through Batgirl's eyes in that last panel, maybe Joker is going to try to trick the captured bat-clan that he's skinned their own faces off (which of course is impossible to happen for real outside of a trick as they are all continuing their own adventures as soon as Batman #17 is over with), and try to make them think their faces are on that serving tray.

[dubbauw]

I suddenly had a thought that since we saw through Batgirl's eyes in that last panel, maybe Joker is going to try to trick the captured bat-clan that he's skinned their own faces off (which of course is impossible to happen for real outside of a trick as they are all continuing their own adventures as soon as Batman #17 is over with), and try to make them think their faces are on that serving tray.

Actually sounds like a good idea. It explains how Joker has plates for all of the family and doesn't have to be something as universe shattering as at least three deaths, plus probably one each for Nightwing and Red Hood. This would also tie into the first DotF covers with the Joker masks. Best idea I've heard so far.

(p.s. your constant praise for this series encouraged me to pick it up, and the issues I just read today, I have really enjoyed. Love the character and the writing, and I think it's a keeper so thanks )

[Shinomune]

No, no, I'm reading the same #2 bat-book sold last month and #1 top selling DC female title for months now as everyone else.

Thanks for reminder me all the bad things in this industry...

[Seattle Freeze]

Batgirl's Joker arc seems like it became more about James Jr than Joker just as the Knightfall arc indicated James Jr was largely in control of the situation. I feel like these issues are just setting up a larger barbara/James story. That isn't a bad thing but with all that development, the James Jr main arc better be incredible with all this build-up.

I loved Lefty. I hope we see more Lefty.

I thought it was interesting that at one point Babara said she isn't afraid anymore. Good. She faced her fears by standing up to the man that hurt her. So I hope she can move forward now.

[DebkoX]

I haven't read the issue but this sounds brill.

[Brave Sir Robbin]

Thanks for reminder me all the bad things in this industry...

No kidding! I have to believe that DC's inability to attract only Gail Simone (and we all know how they almost botched that) as a decent writer who can script compelling female heroes is a problem. They have great properties in Catwoman, Batwoman, the BOP, Supergirl, the Earth 2 chicks, and probably others, but they diftt along with sometimes flawed or just bad hack writers. Wonder Woman is great, but most of the other female leads have an Achilles heal. Catwoman is always criticized for being showy and stupid. Batwoman has Williams' navel gazing. Supergirl stopped using plots. Bird of Prey was frenetic to the point of now knowing what was even happening, and no one could figure out what World’s Finest was even about.

So you are right, the industry does have a problem with getting good writers, but it is mostly in the Big Two. There are some good and some just crazy phenomenal books from the smaller publishers. But it is probably tricky to work within the parameters of the superhero world and work for an editorial direction that is conservative and heavy handed. Most DC books do pretty poor in sales when compared to the top handful of titles. The lack of skilled writers who would need freedom to carve out a great story and world is going to keep DC churning titles, looking for successful female heroes, and all heroes.

So we can all just thank goodness Gail Simone will still be at the helm of Batgirl for the foreseeable future.

[Godlike13]

Didn't get an end, but im reading Batman too so that doesn't really bother me too much. Though if u don't read Batman then ya, that would kind of suck. Still I enjoyed it. I found it interesting that Babs was gonna do it. She was gonna kill the Jokers.

[Charlus]

Have to agree, the past two issues despite some of the gruesomeness were good, but the ending IS a total let down in that there is NO conclusion for Batgirl's character at all (same as what happened to Robin in Batman & Robin) and Batman will be the end all, be all star of the end of this tale apparently. Not Gail's fault, but like you said now I think I'd rather that Babs hadn't even bothered to be a part of this crossover although THIS one unlike the owls was probably mandatory (with the usual Batwoman exemption).

So I too will probably read Batman #17 in the store only, and then get back to Batgirl #17 so she can get back to trying to save her mom, even though the hostage spoilers:

has simply now traded hands from Joker to James Jr.

end of spoilers

And IMO sales deserve to take a knock this issue since there was no real ending, and one has to read Batman save the day in Batman #17 next month to read the conclusion of this story. All I'm seeing is the same memo as in Batgirl #12, that Batman/Batwoman are simply better than Nightwing, Batgirl, Robin, Red Robin, and Red Hood, and that the one's captured are not as "worthy" of being bats as Batman. In terms of respect for the solo titles, that is a stink of disrespect. Nightwing if captured like Batgirl & Robin will be cursed with the name of "Batman-Lite" for life when he used to be one of DC's greatest team leaders. Sigh, my interest in this crossover has officially circled down the proverbial toilet. Boo on Snyder, IMO.

Being new in all this... Why was Batwoman be excluded from this cross-over?

[Seattle Freeze]

probably because she isn't part of Batman's inner circle. The Birds of prey aren't in this either.

[Charlus]

probably because she isn't part of Batman's inner circle. The Birds of prey aren't in this either.

Thanks.

[Bluebow]

Being new in all this... Why was Batwoman be excluded from this cross-over?

Or because the artwork on Batwoman takes so long to draw it would need a longer notice period than practical to incorporate a crossover into the plot as Batwoman has not yet completed one story arc since the re-boot.

[Charlus]

Or because the artwork on Batwoman takes so long to draw it would need a longer notice period than practical to incorporate a crossover into the plot as Batwoman has not yet completed one story arc since the re-boot.

Yeah... you reminded me why I stopped buying that book...

Anyway, despite the fact that we will have to wait until Batman 17 to know what happens to Babs, are you satisfied with the way Gail managed her DotF part? Although I enjoyed this past three issues, I´ve got the feeling she could´ve come up with something better.

-Babs receives a phone call: "We have your mother, do as told...", etc. Babs to the rescue!

-Babs arrives at the roller rink to meet the Joker, who has her mother tied up next to a bomb. The Joker plays a little while with her ("Would you marry me...", etc.) and Babs finds herself inable to free her mom. She leaves, but with the promise to meet the Joker again at some church.

-In there, the wedding simulacre goes on, there is a little fight and the Joker finally captures Babs with the help of her little brother, who exchanges her for her mother. A granade explodes and Babs and the Joker survive, we don´t know how...

Well, if the Joker wanted to capture Batgirl in order to show her to Batman on video, why didn´t he just put Babs to sleep at the roller rink, why risk the whole plan by meeting her at that church? And all the "wedding" thing just to show Babs her mothers fingertip chopped off?

I know Gail had to deliver the story at certain point, but I find the ride to be a litte underwhelming, and, as someone already said, Gail seems to has written this plot thinking more about James rather than about the Joker.

[The Greatest Hero]

All this crossover did was make me hate James Jr. He's just a punk. His whole evil Machiavelli schtick didn't hold up very well.

Just another punk with a grenade. "I haz grenades. STICK 'EM UP!" "Nerp, those grenades were toys I bought at the Dollar Store two blocks south. BUT DIS GRENADE IS REAL!"

Lame.

[Bluebow]

Yeah... you reminded me why I stopped buying that book...

Anyway, despite the fact that we will have to wait until Batman 17 to know what happens to Babs, are you satisfied with the way Gail managed her DotF part? Although I enjoyed this past three issues, I´ve got the feeling she could´ve come up with something better.

-Babs receives a phone call: "We have your mother, do as told...", etc. Babs to the rescue!

-Babs arrives at the roller rink to meet the Joker, who has her mother tied up next to a bomb. The Joker plays a little while with her ("Would you marry me...", etc.) and Babs finds herself inable to free her mom. She leaves, but with the promise to meet the Joker again at some church.

-In there, the wedding simulacre goes on, there is a little fight and the Joker finally captures Babs with the help of her little brother, who exchanges her for her mother. A granade explodes and Babs and the Joker survive, we don´t know how...

Well, if the Joker wanted to capture Batgirl in order to show her to Batman on video, why didn´t he just put Babs to sleep at the roller rink, why risk the whole plan by meeting her at that church? And all the "wedding" thing just to show Babs her mothers fingertip chopped off?

I know Gail had to deliver the story at certain point, but I find the ride to be a litte underwhelming, and, as someone already said, Gail seems to has written this plot thinking more about James rather than about the Joker.

It did seem to switch about who had the upper hand quite a bit, with Barbara changing her mind about if she could safely attack The Joker or must go along with him for her mother's sake. Possibly her first confrontation with The Joker should not have been in a crossover with the focus so widespread instead of just the two of them, plus his henchmen of course.