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  1. #76
    New Member Venom Symbiote's Avatar
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    I agree, A fight between Goku and Superman that solely revolves around strength and speed without using Superman's weaknesses (whether he has the knowledge or not, or chooses not to for the thrill or fairness) is a win for Superman.

    What bothered me were the mistakes they made. They said when using instant transmission he'd run into the risk of teleporting him to a planet with a red sun. All he has to do is teleport quickly to a few planets to find one. Before or during the fight.
    Also, they said destroying the sun wouldn't matter because the supernova would destroy all the planets nearby completely dismissing instant transmission (If he'd have time for that is more a matter of opinion).
    Then there's the way they calculated his strength and speed which I explained earlier why I disagree.

    It's just hard for me to imagine someone with all the advantages he has over his opponent completely dismisses them and goes into a fist fight. I guess that's Goku then.
    If we were to make a death battle between Buu and Goku, I'm sure they would have declared Buu as the winner. The only thing he'd need to do is teleport in front of him and turn him into an egg or something. No moral issues there.

    Edit: I forgot about the kamehameha, like I mentioned before. We see Goku using it and destroying one single building with almost no effect on Superman at all. Besides it being massively underpowered there's just no way to calculate the effect a kamehameha wave would have on Superman (He would be able to hit him with it for sure using instant transmission like he did on Cell).
    Last edited by Venom Symbiote; 01-17-2013 at 06:21 AM.

  2. #77
    Inf‚me et fier de l'Ítre Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venom Symbiote View Post
    I agree, A fight between Goku and Superman that solely revolves around strength and speed without using Superman's weaknesses (whether he has the knowledge or not, or chooses not to for the thrill or fairness) is a win for Superman.

    What bothered me were the mistakes they made. They said when using instant transmission he'd run into the risk of teleporting him to a planet with a red sun. All he has to do is teleport quickly to a few planets to find one. Before or during the fight.
    Also, they said destroying the sun wouldn't matter because the supernova would destroy all the planets nearby completely dismissing instant transmission (If he'd have time for that is more a matter of opinion).
    Then there's the way they calculated his strength and speed which I explained earlier why I disagree.

    It's just hard for me to imagine someone with all the advantages he has over his opponent completely dismisses them and goes into a fist fight. I guess that's Goku then.
    If we where to make a death battle between Buu and Goku, I'm sure they would have declared Buu as the winner. The only thing he'd need to do is teleport in front of him and turn him into an egg or something. No moral issues there.

    Edit: I forgot about the kamehameha, like I mentioned before. We see Goku using it and destroying one single building with almost no effect on Superman at all. Besides it being massively underpowered there's just no way to calculate the effect a kamehameha wave would have on Superman (He would be able to hit him with it for sure using instant transmission like he did on Cell).
    Well, if Superman can withstand a punch from Super Sayan 4 Goku, a Kamehamehah from a Super Sayan 1 Goku is going to do squat on him. We have a million example from the manga to take this from.
    As for a Goku/Buu fight.....well, we had one (more than on) in the manga, and fact is, Goku won by using a Genkidama. In fact, the fact Goku never won in a way he considered to be "fair" is a small point in the epilogue of the show, when he asks the Gods to reincarnate Buu into a good person so he could fight him loyally without putting the universe at risk. That's the kind of thing he does when he the villain is stronger than (the fact he asked Krillin to spare Vegeta during the Sayan arc is the most extreme example).
    As for the strengh, I actually thought their reasonning for it was good enough considering the few facts we have about it. We know that, at the beginning of the Buu saga, a non transformed Goku has a hard time with 40 tons (it's from the manga). The fact a Super Sayan transformation multiply by 50 the power of the Sayan is also an information from the official handbook. So, they took both numbers and multiplied (40 x50 x50 x50 x50). It's hard to argue they're wrong, because there's no other facts to contradict it.
    "I'm going to paraphrase Nietzsche, when you judge a work, the work judges you."

  3. #78
    New Member Venom Symbiote's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post
    Well, if Superman can withstand a punch from Super Sayan 4 Goku, a Kamehamehah from a Super Sayan 1 Goku is going to do squat on him. We have a million example from the manga to take this from.
    I don't think a ki attack is comparable to a punch, especially not the kamehameha. Take Vegeta vs Perfect Cell for example. Vegeta couldn't land a hit on him while his Final Flash damaged him.

    As for a Goku/Buu fight.....well, we had one (more than on) in the manga, and fact is, Goku won by using a Genkidama. In fact, the fact Goku never won in a way he considered to be "fair" is a small point in the epilogue of the show, when he asks the Gods to reincarnate Buu into a good person so he could fight him loyally without putting the universe at risk. That's the kind of thing he does when he the villain is stronger than (the fact he asked Krillin to spare Vegeta during the Sayan arc is the most extreme example).
    The fact that Buu didn't just teleport in front of him and used chocolate beam while Goku was gathering energy for the spirit bomb or attack him any other way was highly illogical. Even though he was distracted, I'm sure he could've prevented it. Would they let Goku win again because of Buu's foolishness for not seeing the risk (I think he mainly just wanted to have fun and play with them). Not even teleporting out of the way when it was done.

    As for the strengh, I actually thought their reasonning for it was good enough considering the few facts we have about it. We know that, at the beginning of the Buu saga, a non transformed Goku has a hard time with 40 tons (it's from the manga). The fact a Super Sayan transformation multiply by 50 the power of the Sayan is also an information from the official handbook. So, they took both numbers and multiplied (40 x50 x50 x50 x50). It's hard to argue they're wrong, because there's no other facts to contradict it.
    I didn't know he had a hard time with 40 tons at the beginning of the Buu Saga. Meaning that's his base form after the training on king kai's planet, 100x gravity and the hyperbolic time chamber.
    But they took his speed from the saiyan saga at snake way, his base form isn't the same in the Buu Saga. But as I said before, it doesn't really matter because Superman has pretty much unlimited strength.
    What I would like to see is a Death Battle between Superman and Buu. I wonder how Superman could destroy him and if Kid Buu likes to play with him more instead of using chocolate beam eventually.
    Last edited by Venom Symbiote; 01-17-2013 at 07:04 AM.

  4. #79
    Inf‚me et fier de l'Ítre Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venom Symbiote View Post
    I don't think a ki attack is comparable to a punch, especially not the kamehameha. Take Vegeta vs Perfect Cell for example. Vegeta couldn't land a hit on him while his Final Flash damaged him.



    The fact that Buu didn't just teleport in front of him and used chocolate beam while Goku was gathering energy for the spirit bomb or attack him any other way was highly illogical. Even though he was distracted, I'm sure he could've prevented it. Would they let Goku win again because of Buu's foolishness for not seeing the risk (I think he mainly just wanted to have fun and play with them). Not even teleporting out of the way when it was done.



    I didn't know he had a hard time with 40 tons at the beginning of the Buu Saga. Meaning that's his base form after the training on king kai's planet, 100x gravity and the hyperbolic time chamber.
    But they took his speed from the saiyan saga at snake way, his base form isn't the same in the Buu Saga. But as I said before, it doesn't really matter because Superman has pretty much unlimited strength.
    What I would like to see is a Death Battle between Superman and Buu. I wonder how Superman could destroy him and if Kid Buu likes to play with him more instead of using chocolate beam eventually.
    -Maybe, but Goku's punches as a Super Sayan were much more efficient against Freeza than Vegeta's most powerful attack (back then). It's all a matter of power. SSJ 4 Goku's little finger is more powerful than simple SSJ Goku's Kamehameha. That's why Freeza could punch back Gohan's Masenko, for instance. It's not about fists or Ki's attack. It's about strengh.

    - Well, Buu's dumb, that's the main characteristic of the character, especially at this stage. he didn't even understood what Goku was doing until the very end. Plus, he just kept being distracter by others (Vegeta, Fat Buu, Mr Satan -aka balls of steel when you think about it).

    - Well, thing is, Superman lacks the kind of attack that doesn't let a single molecule of your opponent (which is what you need to get rid of Buu). Superbreath? I don't think it's powerful enough to freeze Buu, at least not for long. He could try to thow him in the Sun, I guess.
    Of course, if for instance, Buu suddenly appeared in the comic and Superman had access to more than just his powers, it's simpler. Superman uses Buu's stupidity to lure him into his Fortress, then he uses the Phantom Zone projector on him, turning Buu into a bodyless spirit in some prison dimension.
    "I'm going to paraphrase Nietzsche, when you judge a work, the work judges you."

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