Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 17
  1. #1

    Default Superior Super Heroes (spoilers)

    Since the Superior Spider-Man Story involves Dr. Octopus and Spidey switching bodies and Dr. Octopus being affected by Peter Parker's memories and decides to become the new Spider-Man, what happen if the following villains and heroes switched bodies and were exposed to the other person's memories?

    1. Lex Luthor and Superman

    2. Dr. Doom and Reed Richards

    3. Batman and the Joker

    4. Charles Xavier and Magneto

    5. The Flash and Captain Cold

    6. Captain America and Red Skull

    7. Green Lantern and Sinestro

    8. Iron Man and the Mandarin

    Feel free to add your own examples.

  2. #2

    Default

    I'd expect knowing all of their heroic counterpart's past would mean nothing to Lex or the Red Skull. Lex's hatred of all things alien would make him likely simply use the power of Superman for his personal gain, rounding up all Kryptonians and maybe coming up with a suitable lie for his situation to gain sympathy from the public. Red Skull knows Cap's past already and would likely gloat about it, using the skill of the Captain under cover until it suited him to create a Nazi force with him at the forefront. Of course this happened in Captain America: Reborn so that's probably a good indicator there.

    Likewise Doom and Richards have swapped bodies before, though Doom didn't have access to his memories at the time. I'm not sure if Doom would think it weak these days to enter Richards body, and it's unlikely he could keep up the pretense of being Reed to Sue and the others after previous occasions. Plus having access to Doom's body again means the intelligent Reed can cause all sorts of problem for him politically much like Matt Murdock did when Doom stole his body. I could see the idea of being the superior hero to Reed appealing to Victor but I doubt he could keep up the pretense for long.

    Batman and Joker is interesting. Knowing the tragic past of Bruce Wayne, it's unclear how it would affect the Joker, and of course there's no real way of knowing whether his 'super insanity' is exclusive to his body or his mind. The experience of being trapped in the Joker's body sounds horrifying, though it might be interesting if somehow Bruce could finally learn of the true circumstances which created the Joker once and for all were he able to access the Joker's memories, though in all likeihood the Joker can never make sense of them so it would be impossible. The Joker might become a better person, or he might create one massive masterplan to ruin Gotham for laughs through Bruce Wayne's position.

    Xavier and Magneto would be interesting from them learning of the subtleties of their reason for supporting or rejecting humanity. Eric would likely have to first come to terms with controlling Xavier's vast power, and Charles equally so. In all honesty the experience might make them understand each other better than before. And i could see Eric becoming more in tune with Charles thinking and even helping humans. But it could equally go to pot.

    Flash and Cold would likely end with Cold not really caring about Barry's life and simply using the powers of the Flash for his own gain, heading the Rogues whilst Barry attempts to utilise his scientfic knowledge with Colod's creations to claim his body back.

    Hal and Sinestro could go down ok, and Sinestro might be humbled seeing his old friend Arbin Sur's death for real, not to mention the insanity of Hal's Pallalax episode. Really depends how much of his vaingorious pride takes over. I'd debate this one.

    I'd say that Mandarin's own past would mean he wouldn't care about Tony's sob story much at all, and he considers heroes as weak. So I'd say he'd become a villain and Tony in Mandarin's body would have to stop him.

    One new suggestion from me - the Doctor and Davros from Doctor Who. I could have said the Master but I find Davros a more interesting personal enemy for the Doctor.

  3. #3
    DOOM DEMANDS MORE NACHOS!
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Paris
    Posts
    6,840

    Default

    Since the whole thread is marked "spoilers", I'll not bother with tags here, though I will avoid a couple of bombs that are likely to define Marvel for the next 12 months.

    The thing is, it's not just the memories: Otto picked up Peter's conscience (for lack of a better word) as well, and THAT'S what's driving him (and what had him NOT kill a bad guy in Superior Spider Man 1). Otto is trapped in the "Great Power = Great Responsability" loop that defined Peter's post-AF #15 life. In SSM 1, Otto runs away from a fight after he takes "hundreds of punches in fractions of a second" from Speed Demon, intellectually expounding on how f-ing STUPID Parker was for putting up with this crap over the years. Boomerang tosses a 'rang at Otto-Man, Otto Spider-Sense's it, and dodges it nonchalantly mid swing. However, it tumbles towards some people, and Otto, basically without realizing he was doing it, swoops down and tanks the blast with his body before it can kill someone. He then asks himself why the hell he did that. Kind of awesome, really.

    Nearly as awesome as Otto daydreaming through a conversation with MJ while staring at her boobs.

    That's the kind of thing that would happen to Lex and perhaps even Skull. Remember, Otto's last pre-SSM criminal move was to try to destroy the world. That's at LEAST as bad as anything Skull and Lex have tried (not talking about their politics, just their acts here). Otto, during this arc, is still mentally scoffing at Peter, but he's also being forced by Peter's conscience to not be a total douche. Lex, being no worse than and probably less "bad" than Otto, once he's subjected to Superman's conscience, is pretty likely to be equally compulsed. The Skull is touchier, as he's far loonier than Otto and Lex, but than, Cap's conscience is at least as strong as the other two's, so he falls into a grey area.

    Doom probably just stops trying to conquer and steal. I mean, Reed and Doom are about 3% different as is - Reed's conscience just forces Doom even MORE into science and exploration, while protecting innocents a little bit more, except when there is a whole collection of alternate timelines and dimensions to destroy as a diversion. Plus Doom will LOVE getting him some Susan-time.

    Batman is ALREADY psychotic - the fact that he's functional doesn't change that - so I don't know if the good parts of his conscience are going to somehow erase the batshitfuckupitude that is the Joker's brain. I'd bet "no." I'd say that the Joker is worse than Bats is good.

    The thing with Chaz and Erik is that Magneto's ALREADY come around to be "pretty good", if still awfully arrogant. He's not been a mainline bad guy for ages now. Meanwhile, some of the blush has been stripped off of Chuck's rose during that same time. If we're talking about swapping them back in 1964, that's another story - Magneto already had massive respect for Chuck, just a fundamental disagreement. I'd say that Charles' "dream" is enough to straighten Magnus out somewhat.

    Couldn't really say for Flash and Cold, but I don't see why it would go differently than Peter and Ock.

    Sinestro was basically a good-but-strict-and-arrogant guy before being more or less corrupted by power into a tyranical dick. It's not a huge stretch to see him be a mostly good guy (basically what Otto's doing) in the same situation in Hal's body.

    Same kind of thing for Tony and Mandarin - I don't see why the outcome would be any different than Peter and Otto.

    Mostly, I see this working out just like SSM (so far) for basically all of the pairs except for Batman and Joker. Even Peter or Clark wouldn't be able to straighten out that nutjob.

  4. #4
    Elder Member Pendaran's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    22,012

    Default

    I mean, Reed and Doom are about 3% different as is
    Doom: "How dare the TVA put Doom on trial for breaking time! The sheer gall! Now behold Doom's vengeance as Doom breaks time /even harder/!"

    Reed in Doom's Head: "Do it! Shatter their stupid timeline to pieces!"

    Doom: ".. wait, what? Doom is pretty sure this is not how this is supposed to work."

    Reed: "Less yapping, more cavalier risking of the space time continuum!"

    *on other ocassions*

    Doom: "Insolent Skrulls! You dare to invade Doom's Earth? Now Doom shall in your very moment of defeat destroy your sentience and trap you in the form of farm animals forever!"

    Reed in Doom's head: "Yes! This is the only solution! Rob them of all higher brain function and make it likely they will eventually be killed and eaten by people!"

    Doom: "... okay, for realsies now, Doom is still a supervillain, isn't Doom."

    Reed: "Less introspection, more smacking the evil personality out of my wife."

    Doom: ".... seriously, this is like that children's book Doom read once where the monster at the end of the book was Grover all along."

  5. #5
    Wol with it. SuperCooper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    4,568

    Default

    Heeeeeehehehehehe
    Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself.

  6. #6
    DOOM DEMANDS MORE NACHOS!
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Paris
    Posts
    6,840

    Default

    Pen, I would so make that my signature (giving you full credit, of course) if it wasn't so long. Only downside: people at work are looking at me for chortling out loud.

    Do you think that Reed, well, reads old-school Superdick covers and either nods his head along with them or thinks up even more dickish ways to marry people to gorillas?

  7. #7
    Veteran Member Radical's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    8,021

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Metaltron View Post
    Batman and Joker is interesting. Knowing the tragic past of Bruce Wayne, it's unclear how it would affect the Joker, and of course there's no real way of knowing whether his 'super insanity' is exclusive to his body or his mind. The experience of being trapped in the Joker's body sounds horrifying, though it might be interesting if somehow Bruce could finally learn of the true circumstances which created the Joker once and for all were he able to access the Joker's memories, though in all likeihood the Joker can never make sense of them so it would be impossible. The Joker might become a better person, or he might create one massive masterplan to ruin Gotham for laughs through Bruce Wayne's position.
    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    Batman is ALREADY psychotic - the fact that he's functional doesn't change that - so I don't know if the good parts of his conscience are going to somehow erase the batshitfuckupitude that is the Joker's brain. I'd bet "no." I'd say that the Joker is worse than Bats is good.
    I always thought that the Joker's insanity was caused not by seeing himself disfigured, but because the acid fucked with his actual brain chemistry. Batman in Joker's body (and brain) might not be all that much better than the Joker himself.
    "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."

    -Abraham Lincoln

    "We thought that by making your world more violent, we would make it more 'realistic,' more 'adult.' God help us if that's what it means."

    -Grant Morrison to Animal Man, Animal Man #26

  8. #8
    Blind Resolve Hazard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    13,583

    Default

    I imagine Luthor would just not be able to stand being Superman and would quickly try to find a way back to his real body. Otto was already pissed that all his achievements from that point on would be attributed to Peter.

    Luthor would rage if all his future achievements only helped make Superman look better.

  9. #9
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    somewhere nice
    Posts
    406

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Master Meglomaniac View Post
    Since the Superior Spider-Man Story involves Dr. Octopus and Spidey switching bodies and Dr. Octopus being affected by Peter Parker's memories and decides to become the new Spider-Man, what happen if the following villains and heroes switched bodies and were exposed to the other person's memories?

    Charles Xavier and Magneto
    I think this one would be interesting considering Magneto's many different characterizations. In fact, hasn't he led the X-Men before as well? I think he would do well as their leader. Charles as Magneto could also make a good villain considering that he has done some... less than honorable things.

  10. #10
    DOOM DEMANDS MORE NACHOS!
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Paris
    Posts
    6,840

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazard View Post
    I imagine Luthor would just not be able to stand being Superman and would quickly try to find a way back to his real body. Otto was already pissed that all his achievements from that point on would be attributed to Peter.

    Luthor would rage if all his future achievements only helped make Superman look better.
    I was looking at this from the perspective that they are trapped in the other body, much like SSM - Otto CAN'T go back, since that body is all kinds of dead.

  11. #11
    Prince of Duckness Beadle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    There's a voice, that keeps on calling me....
    Posts
    7,947

    Default

    Skull's already had a Cap-clone body, just without the shield, so he'd be pretty used to it.

    I'd like to see some weirder mixes like....

    Emma Frost and Blob. (Emma Frost: "..... I hate myself.", Blob: "This. Is. AWESOME! I am NEVER leaving the house!"
    Cap and M.O.D.O.K. (Cap: "Well this is inconvenient.")
    Daredevil and Slug (Man Without Fear of Daytime Television)
    Storm and Shadow King (Storm ceases to exist. And there is much rejoicing.)
    Yes, I know the voices aren't real. But they do have some VERY good ideas....

  12. #12
    Everyone's favorite host Guy Smiley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    4,073

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Master Meglomaniac View Post
    4. Charles Xavier and Magneto
    I guess the real question is if Xavier's telepathy has allowed him to encounter enough intrinsically good people to counterbalance Magneto's memories of having been stuck in a Nazi concentration camp. If not, he'd most likely see Xavier's memories, go "Well of course he thought we could live in peace with the hu-mons, but he didn't understand humanity's true dark side," and go on being Magnetoey.

  13. #13
    Eleventh Reincarnation Siriel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    51,026

    Default

    Assuming he accepts the bodyswap, I could see Lex rationalizing his new conscience with "I kept telling people that without that annoying alien around, I would make the world a much better place. And now I'm doing it! Take that, Superm-err, Clark! I was right all along!".
    Suffering is a fact of life. You survive if you find a reason to endure it.

  14. #14
    DOOM DEMANDS MORE NACHOS!
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Paris
    Posts
    6,840

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Smiley View Post
    I guess the real question is if Xavier's telepathy has allowed him to encounter enough intrinsically good people to counterbalance Magneto's memories of having been stuck in a Nazi concentration camp. If not, he'd most likely see Xavier's memories, go "Well of course he thought we could live in peace with the hu-mons, but he didn't understand humanity's true dark side," and go on being Magnetoey.
    The thing is, Otto's personality and rationale haven't really changed - he's being compelled to be good beyond his rationalizations.

    This isn't just a body swap - Peter's conscience is riding shotgun with the actual ability to affect outcomes despite what Otto wants to do - to the point where Otto saves a civilian and says to himself "now why the hell did I do that?" Otto does NOT kill someone where he has the opportunity, and says to himself "WTF? I wanted him dead. What stayed my hand?" And at that point, Peter was explicitly shown as an image next to Otto - complete with thought bubbles saying "Otto, you don't know it, but I'e still got some control here. Oh, and you are a colossal douche. Nyah, nyah."

    Magneto might WANT to keep on being Magnetoey, I just question whether he COULD.

    The Joker, however, in Batman's body with Batman's "conscience" behind him, is going to keep on being Jokery, I'd say.

  15. #15
    Status Quo Cowards Thanos Classic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    5,067

    Default

    1 jump to save a civilian and prevention of a fatal beat down does not mean the likes of Doom's will power will be stopped. Whatever Reed wants in the rare occurrence Doom and he might differ in opinion results in Doom subconsciously telling Reed to sit down. Doom does whatever Doom wants.

    Captain America isn't as much as a goodie two shoes as Peter. Red skull should still be able to kill if it's a situation where he desperately wants it. In fact, Red Skull's general hatred for all things arguably surpass Doc Ock. I see the new Captain America doing his best to secretly create or back some new political party. Beyond that might be difficult, but Red Skull should still be able to do it. There's a big difference between reactionary alters like we saw and changing someone's entire character. On this point, the fact wants to keep the whole swap a secret is part of what's keeping him in check.

    Lex no longer kills. Given Superman's speed saving people sill happens. The Jla still goes on. The big difference is Lex will probably take a toned down Justice Lords route.

    Flash is so ludicrously fast that stealing would be laughably easy for him. Hell, Cold could probably make money after reading a book to satisfy whatever monetary needs he desire.
    Batman should call Superman or Wonderwoman to put an end to Crime in Gotham Forever. It'd only take about 3 minutes...

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •