Fortress or Kent Farm?

**Superman Priime** · 01-08-2013, 11:38 PM

Originally Posted by adkal

Other than Bruce (and maybe J'onn and Diana), I don't think any of the others have ever been there and not been in costume (in an established continuity, not an Elseworlds). When they had a meeting in the farm pre-Nu52 (this is way back during Morrison's run on the JLA), they were costumed. There was Batman, in the kitchen, eating an apple...

heh

Aquaman were there, too. I thought that was a cool scene--Superman, Batman and Aquaman in the Kent's kitchen having a meeting (during the 'Rock of Ages' storyline, I believe) and Batman eating an apple. Morrison's JLA was the best JLA ever.

**Jon Clark** · 01-09-2013, 12:02 AM

Had to go with the Fortress. The apartment has rarely if ever been associated with Superman. And the farm only holds for Post-Crisis.

For most of his history the Kents have been part of his past and the farm has played no real role. The Golden Age Superman never spent time on the Kent farm. The Silver-Age Superman's parents had sold the place before he started school. It was only the Byrne-Flashpoint version that even had a farm to go back to.

**Flash Gordon** · 01-09-2013, 01:18 AM

But the Fortress isn't a home. As a grown man, Clark left the nest, got a job in Metropolis, rented an apartment, and pays the bills for that place. If we're assessing what sort of place demonstrates his maturity and masculinity the most it would be the home he keeps through an honest day of work.

Must we define the character so narrowly? No one is represented only by one place. We are defined best by looking at the whole picture of our lives not just one part of it. There's more to Superman than the Fortress, the Farm, or the Metropolis apartment.

We are mainly defined by our actions. What we do, not where we're from. Clark's apartment is his home and Superman's Fortress is everything about him. It has all kinds of cool things from his adventures and his life. It's a hideout. I would assume he'd feel most comfortable there.

He may not go "home" to the Fortress every night but that's because he's also Clark Kent and he wants to have his city life too.

**Coyote2010** · 01-09-2013, 04:41 AM

I think the Kents, particularly depression era, would want Superman to make his own place in the world. Superman's story is as much about leaving home, Krypton and the farm, as it about remembering where he's from. I have a pre crisis view of Superman. To my mind Pre Crisis Superman had interests, hobbies,experiments, even his journal, that only took place at the Fortress. A place where he could unabashedly be Superman. Plus Kandor, his ties to Kandars were much more natural and relaxed than recent interpretations of the character. When Earth Two Superman, Golden Age Superman finally married Lois, the final Wedding Ceremony was traditional Kryptonian and at the Fortress.

**the Sun God** · 01-09-2013, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by misslane38

No one is represented only by one place. We are defined best by looking at the whole picture of our lives not just one part of it. There's more to Superman than the Fortress, the Farm, or the Metropolis apartment.

That reminds me the latest episodes of Smallville - Season 10, where Clark turn off the Fortress A.I. and want to sells the Farm to leave the past behind and not be defined by it. "I can finally admit that I am no longer just the son of Jor-El or Jonathan Kent". After a few episodes he pretty much realizes what you're saying and has a change of heart.

**DochaDocha** · 01-09-2013, 03:49 PM

If you really want to get into semantics, the place that "best represents" the character should be the place he built with his own hands. Of course that doesn't discount the influence Kent farm had on his development, or the fondness he has for it, but Kent farm is the legacy of at least two other people, whereas the Fortress belongs to Superman and Superman alone.

**misslane38** · 01-09-2013, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by DochaDocha

If you really want to get into semantics, the place that "best represents" the character should be the place he built with his own hands. Of course that doesn't discount the influence Kent farm had on his development, or the fondness he has for it, but Kent farm is the legacy of at least two other people, whereas the Fortress belongs to Superman and Superman alone.

I'm not familiar with every aspect of every incarnation of Superman, but I do know that in many versions of the story Superman doesn't build his Fortress. It's sort of just created using Kryptonian technology.

**ForeverYoung8** · 01-10-2013, 06:18 AM

LTTP here, forgive me for bumping the thread.

To me, it depends on what era we're talking about (thus, I didn't vote). I have very, very little knowledge of the Golden Age & where he hung his hat, so I'll leave that alone. But I look at it like this:

Silver Age: The Fortress. These stories depicted a very sci-fi, cosmic adventure-type Superman (who treated 'Clark' like a disguise); the giant key, the giant "Superman Diary", all of those things fit this version of Superman. In the Silver Age, I would vote Fortress.

Post-Crisis Byrne era: I won't even count this has he had no fortress. I suppose if I were forced to choose, I'd pick Clark's apartment because 'Superman' was the disguise.

Post-Crisis Jurgens Era: I'd probably say the Kent farm. It was a place where he could go to be himself, get a homecooked meal, and seek advice like humans do. The Eradicator built the era's first fortress, buried beneath the ice, containing relics of Krypton's past. Clark commented more than once how "cold" and "alien" that fortress was (I believe he even once told the fortress robots "You know what? This place gives me the willies. I'm outta here!").

Post-Crisis Loeb (I think?) era: The Fortress was the tesseract one. I vote Farm here as the tesseract fortress just seemed too sci-fi for THIS particular version of the character. I think this would have well-suited Silver Age Superman, but it seemed out of place in the early 2000's.

Post-Infinite Crisis: I vote Fortress. There was a big surge here to incorporate the Donnerverse into the comics, and it led to my personal favorite fortress making its debut. Superman would come here to work on Mon-El's cure, he conversed with Jor-El about Kryptonian/human pregnancies,earned about Zod & the true Brainiac. Granted, he was married, but the writers often played with the L&C marriage outside their home more than they did inside. It should be noted, too, that during Busiek's run (I think), while Chris was living with L&C, Clark built a teleporter in their apartment that specifically transferred you to the fortress.

New 52: I suppose Fortress, because we've seen Superman hang out there, but it's a bit too early to tell.

So yeah...in my opinion, it varies based on the era that we're talking about.

**misslane38** · 01-10-2013, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by ForeverYoung8

It should be noted, too, that during Busiek's run (I think), while Chris was living with L&C, Clark built a teleporter in their apartment that specifically transferred you to the fortress.

It's a cute scene from Superman #674.

So I suppose in that instance the Fortress was essentially another room in his home.

**Superlad93** · 01-10-2013, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by ForeverYoung8

LTTP here, forgive me for bumping the thread.

To me, it depends on what era we're talking about (thus, I didn't vote). I have very, very little knowledge of the Golden Age & where he hung his hat, so I'll leave that alone. But I look at it like this:

Silver Age: The Fortress. These stories depicted a very sci-fi, cosmic adventure-type Superman (who treated 'Clark' like a disguise); the giant key, the giant "Superman Diary", all of those things fit this version of Superman. In the Silver Age, I would vote Fortress.

Post-Crisis Byrne era: I won't even count this has he had no fortress. I suppose if I were forced to choose, I'd pick Clark's apartment because 'Superman' was the disguise.

Post-Crisis Jurgens Era: I'd probably say the Kent farm. It was a place where he could go to be himself, get a homecooked meal, and seek advice like humans do. The Eradicator built the era's first fortress, buried beneath the ice, containing relics of Krypton's past. Clark commented more than once how "cold" and "alien" that fortress was (I believe he even once told the fortress robots "You know what? This place gives me the willies. I'm outta here!").

Post-Crisis Loeb (I think?) era: The Fortress was the tesseract one. I vote Farm here as the tesseract fortress just seemed too sci-fi for THIS particular version of the character. I think this would have well-suited Silver Age Superman, but it seemed out of place in the early 2000's.

Post-Infinite Crisis: I vote Fortress. There was a big surge here to incorporate the Donnerverse into the comics, and it led to my personal favorite fortress making its debut. Superman would come here to work on Mon-El's cure, he conversed with Jor-El about Kryptonian/human pregnancies,earned about Zod & the true Brainiac. Granted, he was married, but the writers often played with the L&C marriage outside their home more than they did inside. It should be noted, too, that during Busiek's run (I think), while Chris was living with L&C, Clark built a teleporter in their apartment that specifically transferred you to the fortress.

New 52: I suppose Fortress, because we've seen Superman hang out there, but it's a bit too early to tell.

So yeah...in my opinion, it varies based on the era that we're talking about.

In the new 52 he actually calls it his home more than once and he even ended up living there for a time when his Clark ID died. He tell Batman that he has a "house in space". Then in Supergirl he tell Superboy that he's been locked out of his "home".

In the new 52 a lot of aspects about his Clark Kent identity (aside from writing) are just him going through the motions of what he remembers a normal life to be.

New 52 it's FOS all day.

**The Black Guardian** · 01-10-2013, 08:51 AM

Kent Farm. Superman is Clark Kent, not Kal-El. Kal-El is only who he would have been had he stayed on Krypton (as well as being dead).

**misslane38** · 01-10-2013, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by Superlad93

In the new 52 he actually calls it his home more than once and he even ended up living there for a time when his Clark ID died. He tell Batman that he has a "house in space". Then in Supergirl he tell Superboy that he's been locked out of his "home".

In the new 52 a lot of aspects about his Clark Kent identity (aside from writing) are just him going through the motions of what he remembers a normal life to be.

New 52 it's FOS all day.

Yet another reason why it is difficult not to see New 52 as distancing himself from humanity. Superman is definitely an alien character, and he should be proud of that. However, if he's just "going through the motions of being human" and there's nothing Earthly or human that feels like home, then I'm afraid he is a more alienated character who has tenuous connections at best with humanity. Ideally, shouldn't Superman see his home as both Earth and Krypton -- Farm and Fortress?