Is Death of the Family compelling?

[Conway]

Yes the guy who wrote Batman #5 writes such a Batgod.

The man fell 20+ stories, twisting in the air, then catching a Gargoyle sticking out and only pulls his shoulder a little. Yes Snyder writes a Bat-God. It's too bad that he is totally inept at being a detective and shows less IQ than his dog, but hey he can pull himself out of a jet engine intake with only his arms.

[Mr. Holmes]

The man fell 20+ stories, twisting in the air, then catching a Gargoyle sticking out and only pulls his shoulder a little. Yes Snyder writes a Bat-God. It's too bad that he is totally inept at being a detective and shows less IQ than his dog, but hey he can pull himself out of a jet engine intake with only his arms.

Not to mention the hulking up out of nowhere. Unless Batman was just using venom.

Snyder's Batman mental-wise is a narcissistic dumbass, but his physical capabilities are everything in Batman comics that are eye rolling.

[Aquacatlungfish]

The man fell 20+ stories, twisting in the air, then catching a Gargoyle sticking out and only pulls his shoulder a little. Yes Snyder writes a Bat-God. It's too bad that he is totally inept at being a detective and shows less IQ than his dog, but hey he can pull himself out of a jet engine intake with only his arms.

He writes him physical strong to be sure but it is a comic with zombie owls so it's a heightened reality. The sign of a Batgod writer is a guy who just has him being invincible at all times and Snyder tortures him and kicks his arse often.

Snyder's Batman mental-wise is a narcissistic dumbass.

If you have no problem with Lobdell's superstalker, I don't see why you would have a problem with Snyder's arrogant Batman.#sarcastictruth

[Cheesedique]

I'm enjoying the hell out of it. All the call-backs to past Joker shenanigans.

I think Snyder has the voice and patter of Joker down perfectly. I can hear Hammil speaking those lines in my head as I read them.

The art is about always a joy to look at.

I think the whole team has been killing it on this title, and especially on this story arc. It hasn't disappointed yet.

Only caveat I can think of is that I forget what's happening in the storyline month to month. This is more because I've yet to reread any issues.

[PxlatdPanlPunchr]

I love DOTF in Batman. I am kind of tired of all of these freaking crossovers though.

[stk]

but hey he can pull himself out of a jet engine intake with only his arms.

Yeah, that moment killed the final issue and nearly ruined the entire story for me, single-handedly. I don't know if that was in the script or if it was just the artist ad-libbing, but whoever is responsible really hurt the book.

Just hanging onto the wing would have been tough enough to buy, but fighting 400mph winds PLUS the suction of the engine intake made suspension of disbelief completely impossible.

[Mr. Holmes]

If you have no problem with Lobdell's superstalker, I don't see why you would have a problem with Snyder's arrogant Batman.#sarcastictruth

Maybe because I don't agree with the first phrase to begin with.

Lobdell is basically the opposite of Snyder. The latter does much more refined work, but his plotting is mundane with pretentions of doing something special. Ultimately the reason I haven't abandoned superhero comics in my adulthood is because I like the energy and creativity in the genre, something Lobdell delivers on.

[Aquacatlungfish]

Maybe because I don't agree with the first phrase to begin with.

Lobdell is basically the opposite of Snyder. The latter does much more refined work, but his plotting is mundane with pretentions of doing something special. Ultimately the reason I haven't abandoned superhero comics in my adulthood is because I like the energy and creativity in the genre, something Lobdell delivers on.

Their styles are different so it's hard to compare. I don't really have any bias to any style really but Lobdell's style is becoming rarer in today's market whilst Snyder's is becoming more popular due to immense popularity of his work. I like some of Lobdell's stuff but dislike it a lot of it too. Red Hood and Superman are overall good but I found his Superboy stuff wasted potential and pretty much cemented my dislike for the character (DeFalco didn't exactly help) his dialogue is often overwritten and whilst I do like he accepts the idea of a new continuity and goes with it but some of his ideas are terrible (Joker creating the Todd as Robin). I think Snyder delivers fine work most times.

[Mr. Holmes]

I can't disagree more, Superboy's initial issues were fantastic until Culling. By far the most interesting take on the character.

But anyway, Snyder's writing is more refined and skilled, but it's his story/direction and characters I can't stand. A lot of his characterizations are done through hamfisted and try-hard-to-be-deep monologues and heavy handed metaphors - "You know what Owls do to Bats, " "King Batman," etc. this stuff just gets repeated over and over ad nausem. Lobdell's character work is much more nuanced despite his outdated Claremont-ish dialogue.

[darkseidpwns]

He writes him physical strong to be sure but it is a comic with zombie owls so it's a heightened reality. The sign of a Batgod writer is a guy who just has him being invincible at all times and Snyder tortures him and kicks his arse often.



If you have no problem with Lobdell's superstalker, I don't see why you would have a problem with Snyder's arrogant Batman.#sarcastictruth

Yes and that's my biggest problem with Snyder's Bruce,physically what he accomplished in Batman #6 was laughable,no other "Batgod" writer ever took it that far and this was right after the vastly overrated Batman #5.

Snyder's Batman is utterly incompetent and unfortunately he gets pass for it cause fans end up justifying it by saying"it's not Batgod" so Snyder ends up getting undeserved praise for writing a more human Batman.

Snyder's Batman couldn't even accept the possibility of the Court even existing...LOL WUT? Batman shouldn't be a Batgod but he shouldn't fall prey to the same tactics and dismiss even the possibility of someone or something existing.

[Aquacatlungfish]

I can't disagree more, Superboy's initial issues were fantastic until Culling. By far the most interesting take on the character.

It had some good ideas but they weren't expanded on enough for me to care. It could have been great but it was squandered.

But anyway, Snyder's writing is more refined and skilled, but it's his story/direction and characters I can't stand. A lot of his characterizations are done through hamfisted and try-hard-to-be-deep monologues and heavy handed metaphors - "You know what Owls do to Bats, " "King Batman," etc. this stuff just gets repeated over and over ad nausem. Lobdell's character work is much more nuanced despite his outdated Claremont-ish dialogue.

He does repeat his metaphors but his characterization of Batman is refreshing as he took the whole "I'M THE GODDAMN BATMAN AND I KNOW EVERYTHING!!" and used it as a fault of the character. Arrogance withstanding, he still writes him as pretty smart and as a detective.

Yes and that's my biggest problem with Snyder's Bruce,physically what he accomplished in Batman #6 was laughable,no other "Batgod" writer ever took it that far and this was right after the vastly overrated Batman #5.

Snyder's Batman is utterly incompetent and unfortunately he gets pass for it cause fans end up justifying it by saying"it's not Batgod" so Snyder ends up getting undeserved praise for writing a more human Batman.

Snyder's Batman couldn't even accept the possibility of the Court even existing...LOL WUT? Batman shouldn't be a Batgod but he shouldn't fall prey to the same tactics and dismiss even the possibility of someone or something existing.

Do you accept fairy tales as reality when someone uses them as a gimmick? The most logical conclusion was that a freak took the idea of the Owls and used them as gimmick not that a secret society has been there for centuries.

[darkseidpwns]

It had some good ideas but they weren't expanded on enough for me to care. It could have been great but it was squandered.



He does repeat his metaphors but his characterization of Batman is refreshing as he took the whole "I'M THE GODDAMN BATMAN AND I KNOW EVERYTHING!!" and used it as a fault of the character. Arrogance withstanding, he still writes him as pretty smart and as a detective.



Do you accept fairy tales as reality when someone uses them as a gimmick? The most logical conclusion was that a freak took the idea of the Owls and used them as gimmick not that a secret society has been there for centuries.

Yes well there are 3 problems with this
1) There WAS a secret society for centuries
2)I dont have Batman's intellect,resources,training,connections.
3)Doesn't sound so implausible when you have Superman,Flash,GL running around.

[dubbauw]

Yes well there are 3 problems with this
1) There WAS a secret society for centuries
2)I dont have Batman's intellect,resources,training,connections.
3)Doesn't sound so implausible when you have Superman,Flash,GL running around.

1) The fact that there was a secret society doesn't make it more believable. It just means he was wrong.
2) The Court of Owls also has immense combined intellect, resources, and connections, plus they spent centuries trying to remain hidden. A century of practice surely could make them pretty good at it. Plus they were there before Batman, even Bruce, so it's not like they needed to mobilize like other villains. They were part of Gotham before him, so he wouldn't really be able to notice any change with something that was already there and well established.
3) But superheroes have existed for centuries in that universe. It's completely understood and known that they exist. The Court of Owls was essentially a story. Like Jack and the Beanstalk, or Little Red Riding Hood. If you saw Superman flying around tomorrow, would you suddenly think either of those fairy tales are real?

[darkseidpwns]

1) The fact that there was a secret society doesn't make it more believable. It just means he was wrong.
2) The Court of Owls also has immense combined intellect, resources, and connections, plus they spent centuries trying to remain hidden. A century of practice surely could make them pretty good at it. Plus they were there before Batman, even Bruce, so it's not like they needed to mobilize like other villains. They were part of Gotham before him, so he wouldn't really be able to notice any change with something that was already there and well established.
3) But superheroes have existed for centuries in that universe. It's completely understood and known that they exist. The Court of Owls was essentially a story. Like Jack and the Beanstalk, or Little Red Riding Hood. If you saw Superman flying around tomorrow, would you suddenly think either of those fairy tales are real?

1)Why cause the writer says so?
2) Too bad we never saw any of those resources or that brilliance.
3) No but if I see a Talon coming at me I'd sure as hell think that the Court of Owls are real.

[Just Is]

I really like DotF thus far (and I REALLY loved the back ups in relation to DotF, especially the Riddler one). I only have really 2 complaints about this. The first is that this is a story that would have easily made significantly more sense pre-Flashpoint than it makes in the DCnU. You do not really get the idea that they are a close "family" in the DCnU. Other than a few relationships (such as Bruce and Dick & Bruce and Damian), you do not have a real grasp of what the relationship is here. You can't assume that the relationships are the same as they were before because, evidently, they aren't (as the case of Tim and Jason highlights).

The other complaint I had was in regards to the crossovers, and its a weird complaint. In comparison to Night of the Owls, the crossovers here are significantly better. NotO only had one crossover that I would have honestly said was really good (Nightwing). Here, every one of the crossovers I read was at LEAST good (...except Catwoman). The complaint here is that none of the crossovers actually works within the narrative and the only thing they really accomplish, is making Joker omnipotent given when they had to have happened. This is one of the rare cases where I still actually enjoyed the crossovers (by themselves) yet think this would have been one of the cases where the role of these characters would have been better if it was just self contained within Batman (especially since all these crossovers end saying to read Batman 17).