POLL: END of ASM EXTRAVAGANZA!: Who's your top eleven writers?

[RyanParkerMan]

1. Stan Lee.
2. Joseph Michael Straczynski
He writes a very different character but that's maybe why it succeeds so well. It isn't just a pastiche.
3. J.M. DeMatteis
He made characters interesting: Kraven, Chameleon, Vulture, Harry Osborn
4. Gerry Conway: only for his 70s work.
5. Paul Jenkins: very mature work
6. Mark Waid: Not only was he the best writer of the BND era but his mini during House of M demonstrated he gets the character like few do.
7. Sean McKeever: best teenage series (better than Bendis)
8. Busiek: wonderful pastiche of the Lee-Ditko era
9. Peter David: brings a sense of humor and tragedy that many writers lack
10. Dan Slott: May rise with his Superior run
11. Roger Stern: A good pastiche but a few odd choices

I really wished I could have included Roy Thomas, Len Wein, Bill Mantlo, Brian Michael Bendis, Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa but the above really did top work that defined the character and his cast.

Great list. Great mentioning Sacasa. He gets Spider-Man. His run on Sensational Spider-Man was fantastic.

[Scott Taylor]

Pick up the Untold Tales of Spider-Man Omnibus, which contains Amazing Fantasy 16-18 and Untold Tales of Spider-Man 1-25, the entire run. This is the majority of Mr. Busiek's work, with the other random issues I don't think having any collected issues.

Well, Marvel's just released a massive omnibus of Untold Tales of Spider-Man, which contains the entirety of Busiek's 25-issue run on that book, plus two annuals, plus the Strange Encounter one-shot, plus the Amazing Fantasy miniseries, plus the Untold Tales backup from an ASM annual a couple years ago. It's great.

Apart from that, I think the only other Busiek Spider-Man that's been collected is Spider-Man Teamp-Up #7, which is surely in one of the recent Thunderbolts Classic volumes.

Thank you both!

[Mister Mets]

1-Stan Lee.

2-Roger Stern.

3-J.M.DeMatteis.

4-Gerry Conway.

5-Dan Slott.

6-Bill Mantlo.

7-David Michelinie.

8-Tom De Falco.

9-Zeb Wells.

10-Brian Michael Bendis.

11-Mark Waid.

I'm a bit surprised to see Conway, Michelinie and Mantlo so high on the list. What do you like about their work (aside from The Night Gwen Stacy Died) so much?

[oldschool]

1. Stan Lee.
2. Joseph Michael Straczynski
He writes a very different character but that's maybe why it succeeds so well. It isn't just a pastiche.
3. J.M. DeMatteis
He made characters interesting: Kraven, Chameleon, Vulture, Harry Osborn
4. Gerry Conway: only for his 70s work.
5. Paul Jenkins: very mature work
6. Mark Waid: Not only was he the best writer of the BND era but his mini during House of M demonstrated he gets the character like few do.
7. Sean McKeever: best teenage series (better than Bendis)
8. Busiek: wonderful pastiche of the Lee-Ditko era
9. Peter David: brings a sense of humor and tragedy that many writers lack
10. Dan Slott: May rise with his Superior run
11. Roger Stern: A good pastiche but a few odd choices

I really wished I could have included Roy Thomas, Len Wein, Bill Mantlo, Brian Michael Bendis, Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa but the above really did top work that defined the character and his cast.

You really like the word pastiche, don't you?

[JGC]

I regretted opening this thread earlier this morning because thinking about my "list" made it impossible for me to get any real work done today... Curse you Xenon! LOL!

Okay, with 8 hours to think about this... Here goes.

11. Dan Jurgens

My one 'dark horse' on my list. As much as the Cone Saga was a mess, I really enjoyed Jurgens short stint when he relaunched Ben Reilly as Spider-Man in Sensational Spider-Man vol. 1. I've always hoped he would return to the wallcrawler some day.

10. Kurt Busiek

His run on Untold Tales gets him into my top ten. What a great series!

9. Tom DeFalco

Nostalgia here folks as Tom was writing Spidey when I first started collecting. I enjoyed how he picked up the pieces after Stern left ASM.

8. Paul Jenkins

I remember jumping up and down when Jenkins took over Peter Parker in the early 2000's. What a breath of fresh air!

7. Brian Michael Bendis

His Ultimate Spider-Man title is outstanding. Those are the comics I read to my children almost every day.

6. Bill Mantlo

Gotta agree with most on this board when they say Mantlo is severely under appreciated. Spectacular in the early 80's is solid reading.

5. Gerry Conway

Still can't believe he was a teenager when he took over from Stan on ASM. Death of Gwen Stacy still keeps me up at night.

3. JM DeMatteis / Peter David

I really can't decide here. Both are awesome, but very different. JMD wrote the serious spine-chillers that made me and my friends freak out. But PAD's Spidey tales were just so darn fun! He was born to write the webhead.

2. Roger Stern

Uncle Rog is my fave. I have such fond memories driving from Montreal to Syracuse a few years back to attend a small comic convention just to get him to sign ASM 226-250 for me - my all-time favorite run of Spider-Man comics. He wrote the best Spider-Man of the 80's and really made lasting changes to Spidey's world. I'm still in awe of his work today.

1. Stan Lee

Created Spider-Man and I'll always be thankful for that. Excelsior!

[Xenon]

I regretted opening this thread earlier this morning because thinking about my "list" made it impossible for me to get any real work done today... Curse you Xenon! LOL!

Okay, with 8 hours to think about this... Here goes.

11. Dan Jurgens

My one 'dark horse' on my list. As much as the Cone Saga was a mess, I really enjoyed Jurgens short stint when he relaunched Ben Reilly as Spider-Man in Sensational Spider-Man vol. 1. I've always hoped he would return to the wallcrawler some day.

Excellent. Phase one of my dastardly scheme is complete.

In other news, Jurgens ALMOST made it on my list. Just barely bumped by Busiek and Mantlo

Now that we've got a whole day and a lot more votes time to update. I think, withotu checking it before I say this, that it won't look all THAT different than it did before, but it looked quite different during the day. Peter David climbed several spots before falling back to his spot.

Current Composite Standings (Number in Parenthesis is total points) [Number in Brackets is first place votes]

1) Stan Lee (133 points) [10]
2) J.M. DeMatteis (101 points) [2]
3) Roger Stern (99 points) [1]
4) Gerry Conway (82 points)
5) Brian Michael Bendis (61 points)
6) J. Michael Straczyski (46 points) (TIE)
6) Dan Slott (46 points) (TIE)
8) Paul Jenkins (44.5 points)
9) Peter David (42 points)
10) Tom DeFalco (38 points)
11) Bill Mantlo (26.5 points)

In case anyone is wondering, 26 different writers have received votes

[Mister Mets]

I think I've settled on 8-11.

11) Zeb Wells
He wrote the best sad sack Spidey of any of the Brand New Day guys. And his earlier work was also pretty good, with a solid Doctor Octopus Year One project and an excellent Jonah spotlight. Plus, Shed is probably the best Lizard story.

10) Gerry Conway
The Night Gwen Stacy Died remains my favorite Spider-Man story. His other tales weren't on that level, and it's entirely possible to do a Top 50 in which only one of his stories appears.
But he deserves credit for managing the Spider-Man titles after Stan Lee's departure, to the extent that some consider his and Lee's run to be the first era of the Spider-Man comics. The Harry Osborn Green Goblin two-parter, introduction of Punisher and original clone saga were also good stuff.

9) JMS
I'm slightly bummed that a vote for him is going to break his tie with Slott, whose Spider-Man run has been better.
But JMS's first arc with Morlun was excellent, as was the issue in which Aunt May learned his identity, and the rest of the Ezekiel/ Spider-totem saga.

8) Mark Millar
Wrote one of the ten best Spider-Man stories ever. Also successful with his unconventional Ultimate crossover "The Death of Spider-Man."

[RyanParkerMan]

I think I've settled on 8-11.

11) Zeb Wells
He wrote the best sad sack Spidey of any of the Brand New Day guys. And his earlier work was also pretty good, with a solid Doctor Octopus Year One project and an excellent Jonah spotlight. Plus, Shed is probably the best Lizard story.

10) Gerry Conway
The Night Gwen Stacy Died remains my favorite Spider-Man story. His other tales weren't on that level, and it's entirely possible to do a Top 50 in which only one of his stories appears.
But he deserves credit for managing the Spider-Man titles after Stan Lee's departure, to the extent that some consider his and Lee's run to be the first era of the Spider-Man comics. The Harry Osborn Green Goblin two-parter, introduction of Punisher and original clone saga were also good stuff.

9) JMS
I'm slightly bummed that a vote for him is going to break his tie with Slott, whose Spider-Man run has been better.
But JMS's first arc with Morlun was excellent, as was the issue in which Aunt May learned his identity, and the rest of the Ezekiel/ Spider-totem saga.

8) Mark Millar
Wrote one of the ten best Spider-Man stories ever. Also successful with his unconventional Ultimate crossover "The Death of Spider-Man."

I was thinking about putting Mark Millar in there but there's just not enough there and I thought Marvel Knights was just ok.
I think it's really interesting that Slott and JMS, the most current writers of the past decade, are tied. They have two totally different approaches to storytelling.
I'm interested in your opinion. Why do you think they're tied? Why do you prefer Slott to JMS?

I think Slotts best arc is Matters of Life and Death and JMSs is Coming Home. Both writers owe a lot to their artists. I think Slott owes more to Martin. Which arc, in your opinion is better and why?

Oh, anyone can join in. I'm genuinely interested in your thoughts.

[Xenon]

I was thinking about putting Mark Millar in there but there's just not enough there and I thought Marvel Knights was just ok.
I think it's really interesting that Slott and JMS, the most current writers of the past decade, are tied. They have two totally different approaches to storytelling.
I'm interested in your opinion. Why do you think they're tied? Why do you prefer Slott to JMS?

I think Slotts best arc is Matters of Life and Death and JMSs is Coming Home. Both writers owe a lot to their artists. I think Slott owes more to Martin. Which arc, in your opinion is better and why?

Oh, anyone can join in. I'm genuinely interested in your thoughts.

I'm coming at this from every angle and the only thing I can come up with is.....just a funny coincidence.

I looked over the data again, trying to find a pattern. What I expected to find was people who rated JMS high to rate Slot low, and people who rated Slott high to rate JMS low, but that doesn't really seem to match up. Four people left off JMS and five left off Slott, but two of those people are the same, leaving off both of them. The ones that have both are all over the place, sometimes the two are close, sometimes far away from each other. And even leaving one off isn't a great example, as one person left off Mr. Slott but only put JMS in last or next to last of the top eleven. In other words, there doesn't seem to be any rhyme nor reason.

For me, personally, being one of the five who left Mr. Slott off the list, I especially can't understand it. I think you've identified JMS' best story, but I think there's a limit to just how high he can go. While spectacular at the civilian side of Spider-Man, his superhero side was never quite in line with expectations for Spider-Man. As for Slott, I think his best story was actually New Ways to Die, but even that had a kind of disappointing ending as Norman behaves in a completely new and out of he blue manner that isn't really justified. In the end, I prefer JMS to Slott because JMS writes characters WAY better and has satisfying endings. Slott's stories have been...close to greatness. But just off enough to...sour things.

Although, thinking about it. I would suggest that JMS' later works were actually not all that dissimilar from Mr. Slott's.

I will admit that the composite list is turning out ABOUT how I expected so far. I thought Mets would be proven right about DeMatteis and Stern being "the two best non-Stan Lee writers", and they're just running away with those positions. I expected JMS and Slott to be in the middle and PAD to be near the bottom. I had HOPED that PAD would get closer to the top, but as I feared, most people have simply forgotten him. Of the writers in the top eleven, he and Mantlo are tied with the least votes. Bendis I expected to do well, which is why I kinda didn't want to include him. I've liked what Ultimate I've read, but just like PAD's 2099 and DeFalco's Spider-Girl, they're really not quite like writing the same thing. It's not as pure of a comparison. I'm also surprised by Conway. I expected him to make the list, but I thought he'd be in the bottom half. But he has a pretty commanding hold of fourth, and is actually within striking distance of DeMatteis and Stern. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, I moved him up my list pretty significantly when I started really thinking about it. As someone else has noted, that initial 200 issues is astoudingly good. I didn't have an issue I actively disliked until ASM 243. so I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. Really I guess what I should be surprised about is that Len Wein and Marv Wolfman aren't even close. =\

[Minerboh]

Yeah yeah, Peter Parker will probably be back, ASM will probably be back blah blah blah. Today, they're gone "forever"^(tm), and they always say you should live in the moment. So with the end of Amazing, I thought it'd be a fun time to do some list topics, like the top ten writers in Spider-Man history. Partially because that other topic by Mister Mets got a little of this discussion started, with only two writers though.

So here's what we'll do.

Instructions

1) List your top eleven writers for Spider-Man. Why Eleven? Because lets be honest, Stan Lee is going to top 90% of the lists. And that's boring. But just giving him the top spot is also boring. There might be someone who honestly thinks someone else is the number 1. So we'll go eleven spots.
2) Stan Lee worked with two incredibly important Artists who also contributed to the story. But Stan Lee was the one with the writing credit, and having Lee/Ditko and Lee/Romita take up two spots on the list is also boring. So just consider a vote for Stan Lee to be a vote for Stan Lee, Steve Ditko, and John Romita Sr. As that argument is a topic in itself.
3) Any writer who has written a character named Spider-Man is eligible. This means Spider-Man 2099 and Noir and Ultimate are all eligible. Personally I think those are different enough that it's like comparing apples and oranges, but that's my opinion, not fact. So yes, you can vote for Bendis if you want.
4) Descriptions are encouraged but not necessary. You can say why you put someone at a certain place, describe them all, or just post your ten names and move on.
5) For fun, I'll be keeping track of the votes and compiling a board list based on people's lists. It'll be a point based system. First place will receive 11 points, second place 10, third place 9, and so on down to a single point. Ties are permitted, but the tying writers will receive the points for the lowest position in the tie. So if Dan Slott, Len Wein, and Marv Wolfman all tied for fifth, they would all recieve five points, for seventh. If you post a "top ten" without rankings, everyone will receive four points, a low amount to encourage ranking, but a little boost anyway.
6) With that in mind, unless it is noted otherwise, I will assume all lists posted are in reverse order. So if you just post...

Bill
Tom
Al
Peter

I will say Bill is in fourth, Tom Third, Al second, and Peter first. If you wish to post an UNRANKED list, then say somethign like "in no particular order" This is discouraged, but hey, we're just trying to have some fun.


For convenience, to help jog your memory in case you forgot something, I've prepared a list of most of the writers. This is not necessarily a comprehensive list, but I know how easy it is to forget someone.


Stan Lee
Roy Thomas
Gerry Conway
Len Wein
Marv Wolfman
Bill Mantlo
Chris Claremont
Denny O'Neil
Roger Stern
Tom DeFalco
Peter David
David Michelinie
J.M. DeMatteis
Todd MacFarlane
Ann Nocenti
Al Milgrom
Howard Mackie
Terry Kavanaugh
Todd DeZago
Brian Michael Bendis
Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa
John Byrne
Paul Jenkins
Joseph Michael Straczynski
Joseph Quesada
Dan Slott
Marc Guggenheim
Joe Kelly
Zeb Wells

That's a fairly comprehensive list. but I'm sure I'm forgetting someone. Remember, as long as he wrote a Spider-Man story, he's eligible. I look forward to seeing everyone's lists.


And now I'll do mine, just to get a start.

Let us see....
11) Paul Jenkins. Great emotional approch of his psyche synthesis! However, his tales were extremely boring frquite often
10 Roger Stern
9) Tom Defalco. He was fine but in his dialogues the word ''Peter'' was all over the place this was pretty intense in SM #75. Plus, his Spider Girl was childish.
8) Kurt Busiek. His Untold Tales were fantastic but again as Defalco. The stories were lacking adult themes
7) Chris Claremont. His stories were complicated from time to time.
6) Peter David. His Death of Jean Dewolf and Spider Man 2099 are considered as classics in my eyes. However that Friendly Neiborhood run... (well expect that issue were Pete ate Morlun which i found as a guilty pleasure)
5) Michieline for his awesome Carnage.
4) A tie between Dan Slott and Gerry Conway because both of them wrote the stories that made us change our opinion regarding super heroes. The former brought back the menace of Dr Octopus (stealing some steam from Norman Osborn in the process) but making him a Spider Man was...well.... weird and disturbing (this is the reason why he lost number two place). The latter gave as the most shocking and heart shattering moment in comic book history and presented us the one guy that could easily give Lex Luthor a tip or two on how you can make your archnemesis's life a living nightmare.
3) JMS.You can say anything you like about Sins Past and even OMD (all though i still believe that he wasn't the writer of that story) but you have to admit that when he came on board AMS he received a total wreck and managed to restore the title to it's former glory before the Clone Saga. But he takes place number 3 because of Sins Past, PROBABLY because of OMD and finally because of his extremely dull covers.
2) Dematteis. The guy took an incredibly stupid moron (Kraven) and managed to make him a cult figure which haunted the life of Peter Parker for some time. ASM #400 was a masterpiece even though it didn;t had a breath taking battle but it sure had a heart shattering HUMAN moment between May Parker and Peter sport lighting the importance that the relationship between a mother and a son has, even though that May and Peter are not mother and son. Finally, the story of Harry Osborn's corruption and fall was pretty intense as well!
1) Stan Lee. Because simply putted, he started it all!

[Chiasm]

11. Chris Claremont
10. Len Wein
9. Zeb Wells
8. Todd McFarlane - Not the greatest storyteller but the art was amazing
7. Dan Slott - vastly improved since Big Time but his Brand New Day stuff wasn't very good
6. Brian Michael Bendis - the only thing worth reading in the Ultimate Universe is Spidey
5. Howard Mackie - I know he gets a lot of flack but I liked some of his stuff
4. J.M. DeMatteis - Kraven's Last Hunt - nuff said
3. Stan Lee - props for creating Spidey but his stories were often too cheesy
2. Peter David - great storytelling
1. Joseph Michael Straczynski - he really understood that the book is at its best when its about Peter Parker who happens to be Spiderman rather than vice versa and no one wrote a better Peter Parker. The arc where Aunt May learns his identity is one of the greatest arcs in comic history.

[JGC]

Current Composite Standings (Number in Parenthesis is total points) [Number in Brackets is first place votes]

1) Stan Lee (133 points) [10]
2) J.M. DeMatteis (101 points) [2]
3) Roger Stern (99 points) [1]
4) Gerry Conway (82 points)
5) Brian Michael Bendis (61 points)
6) J. Michael Straczyski (46 points) (TIE)
6) Dan Slott (46 points) (TIE)
8) Paul Jenkins (44.5 points)
9) Peter David (42 points)
10) Tom DeFalco (38 points)
11) Bill Mantlo (26.5 points)

In case anyone is wondering, 26 different writers have received votes

Xenon, one factor that I'm sure is coming into play here is the starting point for which people starting reading Spider-Man. The "nostalgia" factor definitely comes into play. At least for me, as a product of the 80's - writers like Stern, DeMatteis, DeFalco, David, Mantlo will rate high because of my fond memories as a kid collecting comics. That's not to say writers like JMS or Slott are bad, I'm just at a different stage in my life where the 'impressionable youth' factor has worn off.

That being said, Bendis and Jenkins cracked my top ten and they're both Y2K writers that really got me back into comics after the cesspool that was the late 90's.

[Leocomix]

You really like the word pastiche, don't you?

Making a point, I guess.

Sad that Waid and McKeever were omitted from the original list. They're pretty much forgotten.

[oldschool]

Xenon, one factor that I'm sure is coming into play here is the starting point for which people starting reading Spider-Man. The "nostalgia" factor definitely comes into play. At least for me, as a product of the 80's - writers like Stern, DeMatteis, DeFalco, David, Mantlo will rate high because of my fond memories as a kid collecting comics. That's not to say writers like JMS or Slott are bad, I'm just at a different stage in my life where the 'impressionable youth' factor has worn off.

That being said, Bendis and Jenkins cracked my top ten and they're both Y2K writers that really got me back into comics after the cesspool that was the late 90's.

That definitely influenced my voting as well; Conway was on ASM when I first started reading the title and Mantlo was on SSM around or close to that time as well. Regarding the Slott/JMS oddity that Xenon mentioned, my only guess is this: while, on the surface, they appear to have very different approaches to the character and folks that you meet who are huge JMS fans often don't like Slott and vice-versa, that really isn't true. My point is that, for many who loved JMS' run and don't like Slott's, the reason could be the dissolution of the marriage. Not saying that is the only factor but, for quite a few folks that I know, it is. Now.....it seems to be that the poll has the 2 writers in a dead heat which supports the notion that fans of either writer (perhaps grudgingly) admit that the other does some good work.....even if they don't support it or claim they don't read it. Just a guess. Me? I read all of JMS' work (and every other issue of Spidey) and loved his first year but grew weary of his mystical bent and lack of supporting characters/classic villains so I greatly prefer Slott but put JMS on my list (beneath Slott) because his impact and talent is undeniable; while I prefer Peter single, the breakup of the marriage was not a huge factor in why I prefer Slott's stories. It could be that other voters feel the same way or vice-versa (they may have reacted more to the marriage ending and never gave Slott's stories, particularly the recent ones, a fair shake). Again, just one man's guess.

[Mister Mets]

I was thinking about putting Mark Millar in there but there's just not enough there and I thought Marvel Knights was just ok.
I think it's really interesting that Slott and JMS, the most current writers of the past decade, are tied. They have two totally different approaches to storytelling.
I'm interested in your opinion. Why do you think they're tied? Why do you prefer Slott to JMS?

I think Slotts best arc is Matters of Life and Death and JMSs is Coming Home. Both writers owe a lot to their artists. I think Slott owes more to Martin. Which arc, in your opinion is better and why?

Oh, anyone can join in. I'm genuinely interested in your thoughts.

Slott's #5 on my list and JMS is #9, so I do think Slott is better. A big reason is that I think his best work (Matters of Life & Death, ) is better than JMS's work.
Coming Home would be in my Top 50, but there are two things I hold against it. The fight with Morlun is derivative of the classic Juggernaut fight. And there's the absurd coincidence of Peter Parker going to Midtown High on the same day as a school shooting, an even that is not mentioned again.

As for Millar, I thought twelve issues is ultimately enough to determine that someone can be included in a list of top writers. Steve Englehart earned his spot on the top Batman writers with less, as did Alan Moore with Superman.

Interesting question on why they're tied. I think that's math more than anything else. People are likely to pick them but not in the top five, so they'll cluster together with Jenkins, who is in the same position.

I will note that I don't care for the points system, although it's been done before with some professional organizations. It doesn't seem to me that the tenth best writer is worth nine times less than the second best. I'm not sure how to compensate for that, though. Maybe by awarding every writer additional points for the number of lists they appear in.