Which again is why I don't think you can assume just because Doom can do something, any villain can. He's not any villain. He's THE villain.
Doom in Infinity Crusade is more badass and does more feats than anything Apoc has ever been shown to do..
Plus the Beyonder, I mean I can go on if you want...
And silver surfer would also crush Apoc...
and like I said Lex would make Apoc look like a total horses ass in DC.....
The most popular alternate reality story of all time is one where Apocalypse takes over the world. I think that puts him on a pretty high level. At least in-universe he's treated like a pretty big deal.
Apocalypse has potentials,but lazy writing(mostly about his powerset)and convoluted storylines ruined him.He was made far too strong with way too complicated schemes and yet he loses from a bunch of mutants.But,early Apocalypse from X-Factor was quite an interesting foe.His battle with Loki,where the God of Mischief barely managed to escape was interesting both as presenting how big of a foe is,powerwise and intellectually and mostly a foe with interesting motive(he wanted to elevate mankind and mutantkind so gods like Loki would never dare to pose a threat).
"I am Loki Scar-Lip, Loki Skywalker, Loki Giant's Child, Loki Lie-Smith. I am Loki, who is fire and wit and hate. I am Loki. And I will be under an obligation to no one."
Seeking to destroy Apocalypse, Mr. Sinister sought to combine the other two most powerful genetic lines on the planet: Summers and Grey (both possess Omega potential). He cloned Jean Grey after she died just to have a second chance at pulling that off.
There's a reason his power is nerfed through the techno-organic virus and Nate Grey was sent away then depowered.
They battled somewhat to a draw, until Poccy got the edge with a bit of help from Caliban if I'm not mistaken. Though Loki eventually over powers Poccys Celestial tech and leaves. All around I'd say that was mostly a draw.
So maybe we can say he's roughly about as powerful as Loki.
He has an intellect on par with Doom and Richards (if not higher) and has technology that puts theirs to shame. He can shrug off a scream from Black Bolt combined with attacks from the Inhumans and X-Factor like it's nothing, while a whisper from Skrull Black Bolt sent the Green Scar flying. He has an extremely broken power set.
He's not some dimestore tyrant that dreams of world domination, he has a set purpose. To ensure human evolution and make sure that the strong survive and are allowed to flourish. He's done a pretty good job so far, seeing as how Earth is still around and hasn't been destroyed by the Celestials.
Poccy's tech failed to contain Loki. But Reed and Doom both have tech feats which put high end cosmics to shame. No one has proven to have tech which puts Doom or Reed to shame. They have the best tech feats in marvel, and arguably the best tech feats in all of comics.
Apocalypse might be a great villain on paper, but he's not exactly going to strike fear in anyone's heart, not with his terrible dialogue and cheesy appearance. I thought the finest example of how he should be used in WatXM, where he was just teased as this huge threat at the end of the show but never actually appeared. When he actually does show up and, god forbid, open his mouth, you can't help but laugh at the dude.
Well, it's quite clear you are not an Apocalypse fan..lol.
You are citing all these canon references why Poccy isn't in the same league as the Hulk but when presented with the fact that he had Hulk on a leash, suddenly you dismiss it as not valid?
Then why can't your reasoning be dismissed as whimsy. None of your examples actually include Apocalypse, just that Character X did this and I don't think Apocalypse can counter that. But he actually did control Hulk in actual issues. So if we are using canon to prove a point, until we see Hulk smash Apocalypse on a printed page, it stands that he can not only defeat the Hulk but make him his servant as well.
In upcoming issues of Uncanny Avengers, we will see how Thor fared against him in ancient times.
Last edited by Dark Phoenix; 01-07-2013 at 10:32 AM.
"Cyclops was RIGHT!!
The problem with Apocalypse is, he is far more awesome in other media then he is the comics. In both X-Men TAS and X-Men Evolution he has presented as being more powerful then he was in the comics. In video games he comes off as more proactive, in X-Men Legends II he managed to conquer NYC and parts of Canada. Also his greatest feats in the comics were in age of Apocalypse, which has nothing to do with 616 Apocalypse. So people think Apocalypse is awesome because of what they see in cartoons and video games, but in the comics he is a disappointment.
Apocalypse is kind of a victim of his own success. In Age Of Apocalypse, he'd won, completely and totally. No Avengers, no non-mutant heroes of any kind, even the X-Men were hanging on, they were never going to actually win. Then a cosmic shuffle later and we're back to square one. How do you top conquering the entire planet? You can't without going cosmic, and that's not really what the X-men are about anyway.
In the cartoons though, he never actually succeeded, which actually made him more potentially dangerous, as there was always the possibility with his powers and celestial tech that he would just come back stronger.