Read the second sentence of the Marston quote. He thinks women should be tender, submissive and peace-loving in addition to having force, strength and power.
Read the second sentence of the Marston quote. He thinks women should be tender, submissive and peace-loving in addition to having force, strength and power.
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Rob Allen
Not to excuse Millar's horribly offensive comments, but I don't think he actually said the second quotation -- it appears to be someone else's description of Millar's position. See here: http://comicsareforgirls.tumblr.com/...years-back-the
Aaron Kashtan | Formerly Sir Tim Drake
Classic Comics Forum Moderator Emeritus
COTM MC Emeritus
Brittain Fellowship | UF Comics Studies | Examples of my work
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"Meanwhile, a puppy that fell down a storm drain on Proxima Centauri was rescued by a trained slith, which unfortunately then ate it. And now, sports."
I think you're right on that. I definitely remember Millar being responsible for the first quote. If I'm not mistaken, it came up when he had a regular column here at CBR. (Which, of course, he named The Column, something that demonstrated his ego and lack of creativity all at once.)
Yes, he did. Not that Wikipedia is the alpha & omega of expertise, but in this instance what it has to say about Marston's wife, Elizabeth, echoes what I've long understood to be the case about their domestic arrangement --
She had her first child at the age of thirty-five and continued to work even after having children, also revolutionary for the time. She eventually had two children (Pete and Olive Ann) and also supported the two children of Olive Byrne, (who lived with the couple in a polyamorous relationship). These children, Byrne and Donn, were legally adopted by the Marstons. While Olive stayed home to raise the children, Elizabeth supported the family when William was out of work and after his death in 1947. This included financing the college and graduate education of all four children and supporting Olive until her death in the 1980s.
(Emphasis added.)
Last edited by dan bailey; 01-10-2013 at 06:51 PM.
I tend to split superhero comics fans into "People who like Krypto" and "People who don't like Krypto."
Basically, if you miss the wonder of a dog flying around in a little Superman cape, you're in the wrong hobby.
-- Reptisaurus!
I interviewed Bob Layton at NYCC 5 years ago and he was a damn funny dude!
R.I.P. CARMINE!
Right. That's how I read it, that being denied strength, force and power, they reject the other side of the equation (tender, submissive, peace-loving). He seems to be saying that the limited options women are presented with are unappealing by themselves. Now, whether or not Marston believes that tenderness, etc. belongs solely to women, I cannot say. It seems unlikely since he assigns those first qualities so often applied only to men, to women as well.
Edited to add: I'd wager that Marston felt that all six of the mentioned qualities were desirable and even essential to BOTH sexes.
Last edited by Phil Maurice; 01-11-2013 at 11:39 AM.
"Leviathans have tried and failed! You will not eat the true Sub-Mariner!"
Namor, Defenders #3
Yes, I knew that. Poor phrasing on my part. I was reacting to the implication that this was somehow a relationship with a skewed power dynamic which favored the male partner. This doesn't seem to be the case. It appears to be a partnership of equals, or at least as equal as one could be in the 40s.
"Leviathans have tried and failed! You will not eat the true Sub-Mariner!"
Namor, Defenders #3
As an Arkansas native now ensconced in Alabama, I'm still trying to come to grips with the fact that neither woman was Marston's sister.
I tend to split superhero comics fans into "People who like Krypto" and "People who don't like Krypto."
Basically, if you miss the wonder of a dog flying around in a little Superman cape, you're in the wrong hobby.
-- Reptisaurus!
Heh. Just about everything I've read about Marston hurries to make mention of this relationship, usually in a pearl-clutching, isn't-it-shocking sort of manner. In fact, it seems to have been no more titillating on the whole than a fourth-season episode of Three's Company.
Back on topic: The Tales From the Crypt DVD from a few years ago had great interviews with the surviving EC creators. Als Williamson and Feldstein are always a treat. It was sort of sad though, to hear that poor Jack Davis still feels awful about having drawn "Foul Play."
"Leviathans have tried and failed! You will not eat the true Sub-Mariner!"
Namor, Defenders #3
An interviewee I've always enjoyed is Flo Steinberg. When interviewed Stan Lee's secretary (or Girl Friday as the position was dubiously known back then) gives an infectious sense of the excitement and camaraderie of the early period of the Marvel Bullpen. You really get a good sense of why she was so popular among fans and creators alike, who seemed to quickly fall in love with her.
Likewise, interviews with Herb Trimpe and Marie Severin, fellow staffers of that period, usually turn out to be equally delightful.
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