Hudlin's Black Panther

[The Cool Thatguy]

Since the OP specifically asked about Hudlin's Black Panther work, what's the point in talking about Priest's take on the character?

Hudlin and Priest have very distinctive styles which appeal to different readers for different reasons.

Constantly denigrating Hudlin's contributions to the Black Panther mythos just seems ridiculous in light of all the crap heaped upon the character before, during and (shortly) after AvX where an architect by the name of Jason Aaron totally crapped on T'Challa and Ororo.

By crapped on, you mean having them interact amicably, like adults despite the powers that be deciding to dissolve the marriage?

[jabu46]

By crapped on, you mean having them interact amicably, like adults despite the powers that be deciding to dissolve the marriage?

He may be mainly talking about during AVX, and how that ridiculous "fight" played out with T'Challa and Ororo, which I kind of have to admit indeed crapped on their relationship, and characters somewhat, with how it was handled. I actually expected better of Jason Aaron, who usually is a great writer and did such a good job with "See Wakanda Die"...after that, I always thought he could write an excellent Panther book.

I seem to be one of the few that didn't mind the recent "consequences" story that had them finish things off amicably, though it should have been an entire issue so more things could be addressed. But many on here have expressed dislike for it.

what Aaron's bit of work in ending something that was editorially mandated has to do with criticism of Hudlin's run I'm not sure of though.

In the end, I don't think Aaron ever tried or claimed to be an "architect" of Black Panther, he just dealt with something he was told to end quickly within a huge event that really made most of its characters look bad...but as I said, I do wish he had handled that break up scene in AVX way better.

[jabu46]

Really, to cut the the chase here though... if someone wants to sample stuff of the character Black Panther, the BEST place to start probably isn't Hudlin. It's Priests. I think even the VAST majority of the pro-Hudlin crowd can agree that Priests stuff was better. And moreso than Hudlins book IMO at least, I think that's the book that defined the BP character in the modern era. Priest is the measuring stick that Hudlin and every other BP writer from now until the end of time will be measured against. If nothing else, it chronologically came before Hudlins book. So you can always read Hudlins stuff after you read Priests (even though Hudlin seemingly ignored most of it).

Course, if the OP is more interested in the writings of Hudlin than the actual BP character, then naturally you should check out Hudlins book.

I would agree, but the Priest stuff is not only for whatever reason harder to find currently, but in way a lot of it may not even be canon anymore. Now that I think of it, despite some claims on here that Hudlin followed or built upon what Priest already established, he sort of didn't. He created a new reality for Panther and his mythology (the way his father was killed, Shuri) that didn't exist before and ignored quite a bit of the stuff Priest had written to make it his way. So in effect Hudlin's run may be the starting point for BP as it currently stands, unless some of that stuff gets retconned back to the way it was.

But yes, Priest definitely defined him for the modern era. But the tones of the books are entirely different, (with Priest's, I agree, being superior and more fitting to the character in many ways) so it may be whatever floats one's boat.

[Greg Anderson]

I would agree, but the Priest stuff is not only for whatever reason harder to find currently, but in way a lot of it may not even be canon anymore. Now that I think of it, despite some claims on here that Hudlin followed or built upon what Priest already established, he sort of didn't. He created a new reality for Panther and his mythology (the way his father was killed, Shuri) that didn't exist before and ignored quite a bit of the stuff Priest had written to make it his way. So in effect Hudlin's run may be the starting point for BP as it currently stands, unless some of that stuff gets retconned back to the way it was.

But yes, Priest definitely defined him for the modern era. But the tones of the books are entirely different, (with Priest's, I agree, being superior and more fitting to the character in many ways) so it may be whatever floats one's boat.

Yeah, there wasn't anything that Hudlin really followed on from Priest's run. The only thing that comes to mind was T'Challa and Storm (along with the very small guest appearance from Monica Lynn).

[jabu46]

Yeah, there wasn't anything that Hudlin really followed on from Priest's run. The only thing that comes to mind was T'Challa and Storm (along with the very small guest appearance from Monica Lynn).

Not only that, he altered Panther's history with his run, which at that point was entirely different from Priest, which is why I say he really just created a new starting point and built on very little that was established and what was not in a good way arguably. He kept the Dora Milaje as well, but even that was altered from the politically nuanced and conflicted position that it was shown to be to merely sexy ninja chicks who eventually became an entire fem fatale harem of women that kind of got even more ridiculous in Maberry's story.

[FLEX HECTIC]

Priest versus Hudlin is really a matter of perspective...


Priest was more of an in-house staff writer that worked wonders while being mentored to and also mentoring others during his run.

Hudlin was a rookie outside the box which is the direction Marvel wanted to go because despite all that Priest did he was not selling the character in the way that made the character a revenue generating machine.

At some point somebody with access to the accounting numbers has to have a say because you can't keep having a character not make money even if it is written well and still pay a creative team to continue forward... This happened to Liss as the ongoing was well written but steadily sinking in sales.

What Hudlin did was put Black Panther out there in ways no other "Architect" did... The Black Panther cartoon was practically done on the side and if Hudlin stuck around long enough there would have probably been more toys and merchandise to come.

I did buy a Black Panther and Storm Super Hero Squad set that was sold as a couple for my son years ago and there was a reference to their relationship on the Squad's show too.

Priest for whatever reason never pushed hard (Or enough) for a separate cartoon or even spoke openly about a movie he just wrote Black Panther very well but this character needs someone who can do more for him than script good stories.

Hickman being an esteemed architect may even have troubles because he is no where near as outspoken as Hudlin is/was for this character and might have a difficult time bringing back hemorrhaged fans from the marriage debacle... Particularly black fans that offset the white ones who talk like they are fans of Black Panther but neither rad nor buy the ongoing issues.

The Black Panther needs a "Point Man" to rep for him through thick and thin and not just a writer that disappears at the first sign of limbo or cancellation and this was something Hudlin was for the character.

Stan Lee nursed many of these famed characters to health by being more than just a writer... He added his own "True Believers" tag to gain that larger fan base and also his great spokesman qualities.

If you ever saw Hudlin at a book signing (I attended two) he draws a crowd similar to the ones the late Michael Turner did at Comic-con... I was in line behind John Singleton's father (Embellish Approved) who came to speak to Hudlin and shared a heartfelt moment with him about his own son also being a black director in Hollywood.

(I only eavesdropped because Mr. Singleton held up the line and I was waiting forever and a day to say hi to Hip Hop Harvard Hudlin... The line went around and out the shop a bit.)


Now... With the success of Django Unchained and Academy Award nominee on the resume with a possible win in sight I still believe as I have stressed to Hudlin every chance that I got that he should host a Black comic book convention in Los Angeles and lead the up-liftment of black super heroes while also setting the standard for what being a black super hero should be!

I don't understand the hate for Hudlin because if you knew what he had to accomplish on unwelcome ground then you would understand the influence towards his writing which had to be "BOSS" possibly to keep his sanity... Not to mention BET's own behind the scenes politics that prevented the prime time airing of the cartoon which comes on at 3:00 AM sometimes long after the buzz has died down!



Hip Hop Harvard Hudlin... Gosh Dang Darnit Doo Hickey The Man Had Two Entities Not Backing Him To The Fullest And He Still Got The J-O-B Done!

[XPac]

Yeah, there wasn't anything that Hudlin really followed on from Priest's run. The only thing that comes to mind was T'Challa and Storm (along with the very small guest appearance from Monica Lynn).

To a degree I suppose every BP writer (except Maeberry who started his run right in the middle of the story Hudlin already started) kind of ended up ignoring the previous guy and doing their own thing once they started the book.

Priest essentially did his own thing. Hudlin pretty much ignored what Priest added. Liss essentially got ahold of T'Challa in a brand new status quo (though I don't think that was necessarily his call... he was just hired to tell that story). And Hickman essentially reversed everything Maeberry and Liss did so that he could have a relative clean slate all his own. That last one is almost kinda funny, as he essentially just magically erased the effects of the last Wakandan tradedy so that he could set it up for the next two.

[Panther23]

My opinion on the whole thing is this.
My view on Hudlin's BP...

He wrote Black Panther like a cartoon, that was eventually backed as a cartoon. Violence was minimum and the establishment of the character was done in like the first 3 issues. You knew who BP was and what he was able to do. Also you knew why he was doing what he was doing and what he did to get there. I was fun and adventurous and fast paced.

This was established to get new reader in on the charactor. Which I didnt mind. Granted he did "forget" about alot of the stuff that Priest had done but as it has been establish so has every other writer minus Mayberry and Liss.

Many people feel that that it was written like a fan fiction, Marty Stu Wet dream but lets face it. He is the Black Panther and most new people do not want to wade through 40 years of backstory to figure out a new (to them) charactor.

The points about BP written by Hudlin that I like (mostly limiting to the first 12 issues) is that he did not need help from anyone and a black man (or woman in the case of Shuri) could rise to the occasion and be a HERO to fight for what was right. Even against multiple fronts of opposition. The talk on the sacred mound was as FLEX would put it "BOSS" because he told the kid that he was "just a man". But this man is a polymathic genius that could, while in the middle of combat, reconfigure his firewalls and security systems.

Also most of the things in Hudlin's view are just outside the realm of posibilities something that kids could strive to be like SANS radioactive spiders or be born in atlantis or asguard or with a genetic anomoly. Again if you apply yourself you could be like the Black Panther. Hudlin presented a charactor that children could look up to not the present mess of the MU. To me he was looking to present the character to a medium long haul view getting new younger "true believers".

Pass issue 14 it goes to adolescant view points and eventually adulthood with marriage and dark (versus earlier) stories. And this is where most people have issues with his work.

To the original poster if you like the BP and want to get more of a fix then go for it. It not like anyone is suggesting you read Roy Thomas' rendition of the BP.

Comic books are here to entertain you and maybe a bit of escapism into another world. Enjoy it.

[FLEX HECTIC]

Homework Assignments!


Please read the following links carefully and then we will discuss them right after...



http://lamerciepark.com/legacy/comics/chips3.html


http://black-comic-makers.deviantart...Sell-219324141



If Hudlin grabbed a basketball and slammed it hard in the face to two defenders would that be something new?


If Hudlin grabbed the microphone and did a rap freestyle off the top of his dome would that be beyond the norm of probability?


If Hudlin got on stage and snapped jokes about the various weaves worn by audience members in the front rows what would be the point?


But... If Hudlin took a black character and sold more successfully than any other attempts how would we classify that?


History in the making?


What Hudlin did was a first on many levels if you look at the odds of selling a mainstream comic featuring a black super hero as the lead.


Black men have dunked many basketballs, rapped many songs and did the comedy circuit to death but never has anyone conquered the ideology of black super heroism at least not on purpose.


We have a black president, black billionaires, black civil rights activists, black militant leaders and black genius level intellectuals but still no real apparent A-list black super hero.


What is missing in the black community has been that out of the realm of reality suspension of belief escapism that can influence black people to think outside of the box about themselves.


How many black men even think about being a hero, a vengeful vigilante or a secret tech savvy hand to hand weapon of mass destruction?


You don't have to actually do any of those things but there is a lot of fame and fortune associated with fantasizing about being a black James Bond.


What Hudlin did by skirting the lines of pure fanboyism and black nationalistic thought was open a Pandora's Box blueprint for changing the game.


If no one outsold him in a genre that is hard to sell in what do you call the man who does that?


That's a trick question but the answer is and always will be... "BOSS!"


Black men don't normally don primary colored spandex and matching cape but at least Hudlin made you think about doing so at the the comic convention.


Many white males don't have that fashion police self pause button that prevents them from dressing as their favorite hero at Comic-con or Halloween maybe that is the real reason black comic books don't sell... Brothas stop fearing the onsie feet pajamas because they are worth billions in revenue!


At Anime Expo I see a lot of Asians dressing up as Naruto or Dragon Ball Z with no shame in their game at all.


Until being a black super hero and dressing unashamedly like one in front of people becomes a hot trending subject sales for black characters will always be low... Hudlin was the first wave of this changing of the guard because he so was so off the standard issue tree of Cookie Cutter Cliche Comics!



Hip Hop Harvard Hudlin... Making History... Changing The Game... Encouraging Da Brothas To Rock Big Billowy Capes And Getting No Credit For It Whatsoever!

[jabu46]

To a degree I suppose every BP writer (except Maeberry who started his run right in the middle of the story Hudlin already started) kind of ended up ignoring the previous guy and doing their own thing once they started the book.

Priest essentially did his own thing. Hudlin pretty much ignored what Priest added. Liss essentially got ahold of T'Challa in a brand new status quo (though I don't think that was necessarily his call... he was just hired to tell that story). And Hickman essentially reversed everything Maeberry and Liss did so that he could have a relative clean slate all his own. That last one is almost kinda funny, as he essentially just magically erased the effects of the last Wakandan tradedy so that he could set it up for the next two.

NO, Priest didn't really do his own thing, he just added to what was already there. the origin of the character and his background characters were already canon and established by Lee and Kirby and later McGregor, he just bought it all into a modern age and updated the character's usage of technology, which made sense, and intelligently showed the political and social strains of a modern African cultured nation. Most of the characters in that series came from McGregor's notable run with new characters added in. He started the black panther off as an already established character continuing what went on before.

Hudlin re- started everything with the "who is the black panther" story and not only changed the origin of the character and how his father was killed, but added a sister that never existed before into the origin and pretty much did his own spin while using some of the characters from the BP's past. there's a difference.

I agree about Liss, but I think his handling of the character in tone and execution was more similar to Priest's superior writing and execution, as he didnt really add anything but just went on with what was already done.

How do you get that Hickman has wiped clean what Maberry did? I don't think he's acknowledging it, but I didn't get the impression that its not canon anymore, though I would not be displeased at all if it was.

[XPac]

NO, Priest didn't really do his own thing, he just added to what was already there. the origin of the character and his background characters were already canon and established by Lee and Kirby and later McGregor, he just bought it all into a modern age and updated the character's usage of technology, which made sense, and intelligently showed the political and social strains of a modern African cultured nation. Most of the characters in that series came from McGregor's notable run with new characters added in. He started the black panther off as an already established character continuing what went on before.

Hudlin re- started everything with the "who is the black panther" story and not only changed the origin of the character and how his father was killed, but added a sister that never existed before into the origin and pretty much did his own spin while using some of the characters from the BP's past. there's a difference.

I agree about Liss, but I think his handling of the character in tone and execution was more similar to Priest's superior writing and execution, as he didnt really add anything but just went on with what was already done.

How do you get that Hickman has wiped clean what Maberry did? I don't think he's acknowledging it, but I didn't get the impression that its not canon anymore, though I would not be displeased at all if it was.

Hickman wiped what Maberry/Liss did clean in the sense that he essentially hit the reset button. And he sort of did the same thing with the Inhumans in Fantastic Four. He mostly brought it back to status quo so he could do his own thing.

Post Doom War Wakanda was in somewhat of a financial situation with the loss of vibranium, while T'Challa depowered of Basts blessing was sent him to Hells kitchen for Liss book. Hickman didn't ignore any of that, but he essentially wrote most of that away in his FF book. Which again, gave him a nice clean slate. To his credit, Hickman actually bothered acknowledging the status quo that the previous writers established before changing it, rather than simply ignoring it completely like Hudlin frankly did. But that's one of the many reasons why Hickman is perceived by many as one of the best writers at Marvel, and Hudlin wasn't.

[Vigilante Man]

I have just finished reading the Who is the Black Panther book and I enjoyed it. I am thinking about getting The Flags of our Fathers series next.

[Memnoch]

I have just finished reading the Who is the Black Panther book and I enjoyed it. I am thinking about getting The Flags of our Fathers series next.

Sweet, The Flags of our Fathers is pretty cool!

[Vigilante Man]

Sweet, The Flags of our Fathers is pretty cool!

I will give it a look!

[Onyenkwere]

Hickman wiped what Maberry/Liss did clean in the sense that he essentially hit the reset button. And he sort of did the same thing with the Inhumans in Fantastic Four. He mostly brought it back to status quo so he could do his own thing.

Post Doom War Wakanda was in somewhat of a financial situation with the loss of vibranium, while T'Challa depowered of Basts blessing was sent him to Hells kitchen for Liss book. Hickman didn't ignore any of that, but he essentially wrote most of that away in his FF book. Which again, gave him a nice clean slate. To his credit, Hickman actually bothered acknowledging the status quo that the previous writers established before changing it, rather than simply ignoring it completely like Hudlin frankly did. But that's one of the many reasons why Hickman is perceived by many as one of the best writers at Marvel, and Hudlin wasn't.

But what you fail to acknowledge is that Hudlin's run on the Black Panther was meant to be an out of continuity take on the character and his mythos.

Once again, Hudlin was commisioned to do an out of continuity mini-series which was eventually upgraded to an in continuity on going series.

He had already introduced Shuri before Marvel decided to bring the series into 616 MU continuity so it's a bit rich for some people to still be blaming Reginald Hudlin for "ignoring" Priest's contributions when his original take on the character wasn't even meant to be in continuity in the first place.

Hickman and Hudlin's differences as writers is totally irrelevant to this discussion so I don't know why you're even bringing it up.