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  1. #1
    Senior Member Polar Bear's Avatar
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    Default Legion of Super-Heroes reboots: Request for Clarity

    Hi all,

    I'm starting to get interested in Legion of Super-Heroes again, but it's ultra-confusing. Final Crisis evidently re-set the Legion to pre-Crisis continuity (yeah, I'm just figuring this out now, years later).

    To read their post-Final Crisis continuity, I understand that one would start with the JLA/JSA team-up The Lightning Saga, then Superman and the Legion of Super-Heroes, then ... what? I'm only interested in the trades.

    Thank you!
    Anyway, it is cool for you to acquire acrimony of crumbling time on blast this website.
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  2. #2
    Say WHAT?!?!?!? FanboyStranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polar Bear View Post
    Hi all,

    I'm starting to get interested in Legion of Super-Heroes again, but it's ultra-confusing. Final Crisis evidently re-set the Legion to pre-Crisis continuity (yeah, I'm just figuring this out now, years later).

    To read their post-Final Crisis continuity, I understand that one would start with the JLA/JSA team-up The Lightning Saga, then Superman and the Legion of Super-Heroes, then ... what? I'm only interested in the trades.

    Thank you!
    Not the entirity of Final Crisis, but FC: The Legion of Three Worlds is the final link before the "Levitz returns" series begins.

  3. #3
    Run Runner shaxper's Avatar
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    Were any of the non-Shooter Legion incarnations worth reading? I've heard some good stuff about the Post-Crisis L.E.G.I.O.N. stuff, but nothing else. There must be incarnations that are worth skipping.

  4. #4
    *choke* Dan B. in the Underworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaxper View Post
    There must be incarnations that are worth skipping.
    *gasp*

    *choke*

    *clutches pearls*
    I tend to split superhero comics fans into "People who like Krypto" and "People who don't like Krypto."
    Basically, if you miss the wonder of a dog flying around in a little Superman cape, you're in the wrong hobby.

    -- Reptisaurus!

  5. #5
    Say WHAT?!?!?!? FanboyStranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaxper View Post
    Were any of the non-Shooter Legion incarnations worth reading? I've heard some good stuff about the Post-Crisis L.E.G.I.O.N. stuff, but nothing else. There must be incarnations that are worth skipping.
    Personally, I found Giffen and the Bierbaum's 5 Year Gap Legion to be the most entertaining incarnation of the Legion, but a lot of people can't stand it. (It does fall apart when Giffen leaves.) Most of Paul Levitz' work on the title is worth reading, especially when he's working with Giffen and Steve Lightle. The restart of the DnA Legion after Legion Lost is pretty excellent, although it gets rushed in order to push the Waid-Kitson reboot. The first year of the Waid/Kitson Legion is pretty good, but it falls off sharply after that.

    L.E.G.I.O.N was a good series from start to finish. The Grant years are the best stories, but the book remains quite strong as long as Kitson is on art. The last R.E.B.E.L.S. series before the New 52 was, in my opinion, the best mainstream DCU book for a two year span.

  6. #6
    Modus omnibus in rebus Roquefort Raider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FanboyStranger View Post
    Personally, I found Giffen and the Bierbaum's 5 Year Gap Legion to be the most entertaining incarnation of the Legion, but a lot of people can't stand it. (It does fall apart when Giffen leaves.) Most of Paul Levitz' work on the title is worth reading, especially when he's working with Giffen and Steve Lightle. The restart of the DnA Legion after Legion Lost is pretty excellent, although it gets rushed in order to push the Waid-Kitson reboot.
    Agreed on all counts.

    If we except the godawful issues related to Zero Hour (with some of the very worst artwork I've ever seen in a comic-book), the title Legionnaires was also pretty good throughout. The lighter, more optimistic tone in both script and artwork got the mag the epithet of "Archie Legion", but I'd view that as a good thing. (The "new" origin of Wildfire was something of a fosterclock, but DnA never mentioned it again when they reintroduced him in Legion Lost with his old personality).

    As far as trades are concerned, Polar Bear, I fear that a lot of the better stuff isn't collected. Legion of the damned (which ran four issues) is still uncollected, as is the original 12-issue Legion Lost... While the New52 Legion Lost is in trade, as is the messy Legion of three worlds. (Sure, the latter has Perez art... but still...)

    *Edit* : dan and Fanboy stranger corrected me on this (see below).
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  7. #7
    Senior Member Polar Bear's Avatar
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    What's the first trade of the "Levitz returns" era, post Legion of Three Worlds, titled?
    Anyway, it is cool for you to acquire acrimony of crumbling time on blast this website.
    --best spam ever

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaxper View Post
    Were any of the non-Shooter Legion incarnations worth reading? I've heard some good stuff about the Post-Crisis L.E.G.I.O.N. stuff, but nothing else. There must be incarnations that are worth skipping.
    (Gasp) The Legion might have DCs most illustrious history after Batman. Even before Shooter there is a nice sense of whimsy to E. Nelson's stories and nice Curt Swan art. In the 70s you have nascent work from Dave Cockrum and Mike Grell. In the 80s you have the Paul Levitz run which even without Giffen has plenty of nice stories. I can't find much to not like about the Levitz run (81-89?) except maybe some strange layouts from Giffen for a brief period in the regular newsprint mag, issues 305-312, but I like them regardless. Levitz knew when to walk away... Imagine if Claremont had left X-Men when Paul Smith left... I think we'd hold his X-Men in even higher regard as opposed to "Man, didn't Claremont write X-Men for a long time?"

    The 5 years later is pretty much note perfect for the first 15 or 20 issues and then gets a little weird and then gets a little too melodramatic.

    Then for some reason DC decided that the Legion should be depicted as teenagers and we've got what we;ve got for the last 20 years. (If I'm wrong let me know which Legion stories to look for.)

  9. #9
    *choke* Dan B. in the Underworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roquefort Raider View Post
    still uncollected, as is the original 12-issue Legion Lost...
    DC & Amazon beg to differ, at least as far as hardbacks are concerned.
    I tend to split superhero comics fans into "People who like Krypto" and "People who don't like Krypto."
    Basically, if you miss the wonder of a dog flying around in a little Superman cape, you're in the wrong hobby.

    -- Reptisaurus!

  10. #10
    Say WHAT?!?!?!? FanboyStranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roquefort Raider View Post
    Legion of the damned (which ran four issues) is still uncollected, as is the original 12-issue Legion Lost...
    Both are collected, actually. Legion Lost is available as a nice HC. Legion of the Damned was collected as a 100-Page Giant, although the first printing had issues three and four reversed. Legion Worlds (which has art by people you'd never think would work on the Legion like Paul Rivoche, Enrique Breccia, and Steve Dillon) will be reprinted this spring.

    Here's pictures of my copies (complete with ugly carpet to keep all the ugly carpet aficionados on the Classics board happy):

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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  11. #11
    Say WHAT?!?!?!? FanboyStranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polar Bear View Post
    What's the first trade of the "Levitz returns" era, post Legion of Three Worlds, titled?
    LOSH: Consequences.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Polar Bear's Avatar
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    OK, Here's what I THINK I understand (after far too much research...)

    I should be familiar with Levitz/Giffen Legion of Super-Heroes up to #313 (in 1984), then stop for several decades. (Or am I supposed to read the re-numbered-but-not-rebooted Legion [1984] #1-36?? Does anyone know if these are still in continuity?) Then I'm to read:

    1) JLA: The Lightning Saga (JLA 0, 8-12 and JSA 5-6)
    2) Superman & the Legion of Super-Heroes (Action 858-863)
    3) Final Crisis: Legion of Three Worlds (the miniseries of the same name)
    4) DC Comics Presents: The Legion of Super-Heroes #2 (stories from Action 864, 900, Action Annual 10, and Adventure 0-4)
    [Apparently Adventure 5-7 are all Superboy and thus have no Legion stories to be reprinted]
    5) Superman: Last Stand of New Krypton v. 1 (Superman: Last Stand of New Krypton #1 and #2, Adventure #8-9, Superman #698 and Supergirl #51
    6) Superman: Last Stand of New Krypton v. 2 (Superman: Last Stand of New Krypton #3, Adventure #10-11, Supergirl #52 and Superman #69)
    7) Superboy and the Legion of Super-Heroes (Adventure #12 a.k.a. 515-520; apparently, there was a renumbering of the title around this time, but none are skipped)
    7) Legion of Super-Heroes: The Choice (Legion of Super-Heroes [2010] #1-6)
    8) Legion of Super-Heroes: Consequences (Legion of Super-Heroes [2010] #7-10, Adventure 521-522, Annual 1)
    9) Legion of Super-Heroes: When Evil Calls (Legion of Super-Heroes [2010] 11-16, Adventure 523-529, and Legion of Super-Villains #1)
    10) Legion of Super-Heroes: Hostile World AND Legion Lost: Run from Tomorrow (first volumes of New 52 series)
    Extra Credit) Legion of Super-Heroes: Secret Origin (reprinting the mini-series of the same name)

    Whew! That's a lot!! I've only read #2-4 of the above list, but I enjoy them. I welcome corrections to this list!!

    Wouldn't an omnibus make a heck of a lot of sense at this point???
    Last edited by Polar Bear; 01-06-2013 at 11:55 AM.
    Anyway, it is cool for you to acquire acrimony of crumbling time on blast this website.
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  13. #13
    Say WHAT?!?!?!? FanboyStranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polar Bear View Post
    OK, Here's what I THINK I understand (after far too much research...)

    I should be familiar with Levitz/Giffen Legion of Super-Heroes up to #313 (in 1984), then stop for several decades. Then I'm to read:

    1) JLA: The Lightning Saga (JLA 0, 8-12 and JSA 5-6)
    2) Superman & the Legion of Super-Heroes (Action 858-863)
    3) Final Crisis: Legion of Three Worlds (the miniseries of the same name)
    4) DC Comics Presents: The Legion of Super-Heroes #2 (stories from Action 864, 900, Action Annual 10, and Adventure 0-4)
    [Apparently Adventure 5-7 are not reprinted?)
    5) Superman: Last Stand of New Krypton v. 1 (Superman: Last Stand of New Krypton #1 and #2, Adventure #8-9, Superman #698 and Supergirl #51
    6) Superman: Last Stand of New Krypton v. 2 (Superman: Last Stand of New Krypton #3, Adventure #10-11, Supergirl #52 and Superman #69)
    7) Superboy and the Legion of Super-Heroes (Adventure #515-520; apparently, there was a renumbering of the title)
    7) Legion of Super-Heroes: The Choice (Legion of Super-Heroes [2010] #1-6)
    8) Legion of Super-Heroes: Consequences (Legion of Super-Heroes [2010] #7-10, Adventure 521-522, Annual 1)
    9) Legion of Super-Heroes: When Evil Calls (Legion of Super-Heroes [2010] 11-16, Adventure 523-529, and Legion of Super-Villains #1)
    10) Legion of Super-Heroes: Hostile World AND Legion Lost: Run from Tomorrow (first volumes of New 52 series)
    Extra Credit) Legion of Super-Heroes: Secret Origin (reprinting the mini-series of the same name)

    Whew! That's a lot!! I've only read #2-4 of the above list, but I enjoy them. I welcome corrections to this list!!

    Wouldn't an omnibus make a heck of a lot of sense at this point???
    That seems right to me as far as the new stuff. I didn't realize that the Superman: Last Stand on New Krypton stories had anything to do with the Legion beyond Mon-El being somewhat involved.

    I also forgot that The Choice was the name of the first new Levitz volume, not Consquences. Plus, I totally forgot those Legion Academy stories from Adventure-- those characters actually play a big role in the New 52 series.

    You are missing the entire Baxter series up to 37-38 where Levitz tried to explain Superboy's involvement in the Legion after CoIE. I'm pretty sure that's been revamped, but otherwise, everything through the Magic Wars should be considered in continuity (as far as I can tell). There's two trades for the Baxter series: Eye for an Eye and The More Things Change.... Both are excellent, in my opinion.
    Last edited by FanboyStranger; 01-06-2013 at 11:58 AM.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Polar Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FanboyStranger View Post
    I didn't realize that the Superman: Last Stand on New Krypton stories had anything to do with the Legion beyond Mon-El being somewhat involved.
    Apparently, Brainiac 5 comes to terms with his relationship with Brainiac.

    You are missing the entire Baxter series up to 37-38 where Levitz tried to explain Superboy's involvement in the Legion after CoIE. I'm pretty sure that's been revamped, but otherwise, everything through the Magic Wars should be considered in continuity (as far as I can tell). There's two trades for the Baxter series: Eye for an Eye and The More Things Change.... Both are excellent, in my opinion.
    I'm pretty sure #37-38 are no longer in continuity. I'd been assuming that knocked out 39-end, but perhaps that's not correct. I'd have a hard time reconciling the Magic Wars with the current continuity, if I understand it all correctly. That said, I'm not sure if any item on my list above (the Johns retroboot) makes reference to the Baxter series, pre- or post-Crisis, as I haven't read any beyond #4. Was there a firm event in that Baxter series, like a marriage or something, that we could use as a reference point to see if it still exists?
    Last edited by Polar Bear; 01-06-2013 at 12:14 PM.
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  15. #15
    Mark Brodersen hondobrode's Avatar
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    Legion's continuity got all screwed up starting with Byrne's elimination of Superboy and even could have worked post-Zero Hour. You just have to accept that the continuity isn't real clean, but just go with it. If you don't let the continuity complications become too bothersome, the actual stories range anyway from very good to excellent. I've liked the Legion, through all of its incarnations, despite being very angry when ZH came out.

    LSH barely edges out the JSA as my fav group title ever.

    L.E.G.I.O.N. and later R.E.B.E.L.S. are both two of the best sci-fi titles ever. These were really ahead of their time.

    If DC ever did a LSH movie, it could be monster.
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