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  1. #121
    Elder Member Mat001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurosawa View Post
    DC/WB has been ashamed of Superman for years and that's not going to change. If they were proud of the character, the costume would be classic and the colors vivid. They've been asking for years, "What's wrong with Superman?", when the main thing "wrong" with him is the twits who own the character.
    The costumes change for all comic book adaptations into films and television and has been that way since "Supergirl". That does mean that they're ashamed, it means that the costumes are often ridiculous. What works in 2D often doesn't translate to 3D. The studio gets the character. They just feel that a different costume is in order. The Superman costume before the reboot is not even the same one from the very start.

    Quote Originally Posted by zryson View Post
    But why do you need to make it more real? Superman is a fantasy based character.
    Because a character has to be grounded in reality to be acceptable. There has to be some form of reality for grown adults. "Star Wars" was considered well liked because it had a used, lived in look. The films of the 1970's have a gritty, urban style that resulted in some of the best cinema around. Darkening the colors on Superman's costume, is just the tip of the iceberg for the character. The real meat and potatoes is having Superman exist in the real world, which Donner started and the current film is taking to its logical conclusion.


    Quote Originally Posted by Francisco View Post
    My theory is that the story hasn't really ended. Bruce survived and the bad guys were beaten but there's always another threat looming in the horizon. When it comes The Dark Knight will return. Meanwhile he would enjoy the company of lovely Selina..:D
    That's where Blake comes in. That's why Bruce gave him the cave and repaired the Bat Signal. Gotham will always need a Batman, but it doesn't need Bruce Wayne. This is why Terry McGuiness took on the mantle in the DCAU and what the subject of Batman #700 was all about.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by zryson View Post
    Aquacatlungfish actually it was a very violent movie. Excessively so considering it was a superhero movie.
    Except not. The only violent part was the Bane vs Batman fight and that captured the tone from the comic perfectly. It wasn't bloody at all just had very good choreography, lack of music, acting and the direction. The atmosphere gave it a sense of importance but there was no blood. You just overreacted. Just because it's in a certain genre doesn't mean you should limit what you can do in a film.

  3. #123
    Elder Member zryson's Avatar
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    You dont need to show blood for something to be violent.

  4. #124
    Elder Member Mat001's Avatar
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    Taking it further, all superheroes live violent lives. It is their stock in trade. They're punching out rapists, murders, thieves, kidnappers, drug peddlers and child molesters, on top of fighting super powered villains, aliens and monsters. Gotham is a violent city, which was set up back in the Kane and Finger era. The only change was how realistic that portrayal was. But the third film did have hope. The city never gave up hope that it couldn't be saved. Bruce came back and saved the day, once again. He got to have a happy ending, while finding an heir to continue his work. Alfred, Lucius and Jim all realize that Bruce cheated death one last time and are happy to know this. The film ends on a very hopeful note.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat001 View Post
    That's where Blake comes in. That's why Bruce gave him the cave and repaired the Bat Signal. Gotham will always need a Batman, but it doesn't need Bruce Wayne. This is why Terry McGuiness took on the mantle in the DCAU and what the subject of Batman #700 was all about.
    I think that if they eventually decide to make a 4th movie Wayne would return. Something will happen. Blake gets badly hurt or killed and BW is forced to return and done the mantle once again.

  6. #126
    Elder Member zryson's Avatar
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    I think when they do a new Batman movie they will just start over. Plus thats just how it goes. You get a couple of movies with one actor and then start over with a new cast and redo the origin, etc.

  7. #127
    It's Lexrules... GET HIM. Lexrules's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat001 View Post
    The costumes change for all comic book adaptations into films and television and has been that way since "Supergirl". That does mean that they're ashamed, it means that the costumes are often ridiculous. What works in 2D often doesn't translate to 3D. The studio gets the character. They just feel that a different costume is in order. The Superman costume before the reboot is not even the same one from the very start.



    Because a character has to be grounded in reality to be acceptable. There has to be some form of reality for grown adults. "Star Wars" was considered well liked because it had a used, lived in look. The films of the 1970's have a gritty, urban style that resulted in some of the best cinema around. Darkening the colors on Superman's costume, is just the tip of the iceberg for the character. The real meat and potatoes is having Superman exist in the real world, which Donner started and the current film is taking to its logical conclusion.




    That's where Blake comes in. That's why Bruce gave him the cave and repaired the Bat Signal. Gotham will always need a Batman, but it doesn't need Bruce Wayne. This is why Terry McGuiness took on the mantle in the DCAU and what the subject of Batman #700 was all about.
    Well Terry took over because Bruce was old and couldn't do it anymore. If he were still younger and not all beat up he would still have been out there.

    I'm sorry, but I just can't see Bruce having a happy ending and just giving up being Batman. I know some do but I just feel his story will never end and when it does it will be in a Batman suit dead in crime alley were it all started killed by a thug who got off a lucky shot.

    That is perhaps the only dark thing I accept when it comes to Batman and his journey.

  8. #128
    Senior Member Tra-EL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by idlewildered View Post
    I get really annoyed by the idea that Superman isn't Superman unless he's wearing the most colourful suit imaginable. The character is far more than that.

    As for tone, I must have imagined some of the darker themed Superman books I've loved..............

    One of the most iconic characters in human history is allowed to evolve for pity's sake!
    Funny thing is, people are widely jumping to the conclusion that this is going to be "dark" in the first place. When it will be all said and done, it's going to be a SUPERMAN movie. The suite is going to flow, the conflict is going to be big, and Superman will be Superman in the end. There really isn't much more to it than that. It's titled "Man of Steel." This WILL be a Superman movie folks with Superman in it regardless if the blue in his suite has a contrast to it or not. I have a feeling there's going to be some powerful messages and powerful feats in this film to make even the non-believer ALREADY hating on this film go "" In fact, I think with a darker world around Superman in philosophy, Supes is going to stick out even MORE. The character is going to dominate in every sense of the word. I'm ready for it & that's all that I want.
    Last edited by Tra-EL; 01-08-2013 at 11:56 AM.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexrules View Post
    Well Terry took over because Bruce was old and couldn't do it anymore. If he were still younger and not all beat up he would still have been out there.

    I'm sorry, but I just can't see Bruce having a happy ending and just giving up being Batman. I know some do but I just feel his story will never end and when it does it will be in a Batman suit dead in crime alley were it all started killed by a thug who got off a lucky shot.

    That is perhaps the only dark thing I accept when it comes to Batman and his journey.
    You must love Miller's and Morrison's run then (it's got that moment in flashbacks). You are forgetting that Bruce was beaten and broken in the films and it was set at the end of his career. He couldn't go on. Blake was fresh new blood into the legacy of Batman.

    You seem to only love one type of Batman and call the other false and untrue to the character. There is no wrong interpretation of Batman as long as he became Batman because his parents were shot and he has no powers. That is it. All the ingredients. Stop saying another interpretation false and wrong because it's not the one you grew up with. The Nolan Batman films are probably the most faithful comics to film translations of a character yet as they take from several storylines and put them into one perfect blend whilst still being good films in their own right and not pandering to comic book fans and being open to those who have never read comics.

    Out of curiosity, what recent Batman comics have you read?

    Quote Originally Posted by zryson View Post
    You dont need to show blood for something to be violent.
    You seriously don't know what violent is. What's wrong with a superhero film being violent anyway. I remember Arkham Asylum creeping me out as a kid and that's a superhero comic and one of the best.
    Last edited by Aquacatlungfish; 01-08-2013 at 12:15 PM.

  10. #130
    It's Lexrules... GET HIM. Lexrules's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquacatlungfish View Post
    You must love Miller's and Morrison's run then (it's got that moment in flashbacks). You are forgetting that Bruce was beaten and broken in the films and it was set at the end of his career. He couldn't go on. Blake was fresh new blood into the legacy of Batman.

    You seem to only love one type of Batman and call the other false and untrue to the character. There is no wrong interpretation of Batman as long as he became Batman because his parents were shot and he has no powers. That is it. All the ingredients. Stop saying another interpretation false and wrong because it's not the one you grew up with. The Nolan Batman films are probably the most faithful comics to film translations of a character yet as they take from several storylines and put them into one perfect blend whilst still being good films in their own right and not pandering to comic book fans and being open to those who have never read comics.

    Out of curiosity, what recent Batman comics have you read?
    Never called them false or untrue if you go back through my posts. I simply said I prefer a certain version over others. Like I said you're a very angry Batman fan and need to put that anger to rest. Maybe pick up some good silver age stories or maybe a good Batmite story.

    Here I offer you this .. http://supermanthrutheages.com/batman/bat-comics/

    The Latest Batman I read was the Dollmaker story. It was ok but nothing to write home about. I most likely will pick up the DOTF when it hits Trades. My days of picking up comics month after month are over with the NEW 52.
    Last edited by Lexrules; 01-08-2013 at 12:25 PM.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexrules View Post
    Never called them false or untrue if you go back through my posts.
    Pretty sure you did say that on the Man of Steel 2nd trailer thread as I recall. If I'm wrong then sorry.

    Maybe pick up some good silver age stories or maybe a good Batmite story.

    Here I offer you this .. http://supermanthrutheages.com/batman/bat-comics/
    You don't know how much crap I get for loving Batmite Lexrules. YOU DON'T KNOW.

    The Latest Batman I read was the Dollmaker story. It was ok but nothing to write home about. I most likely will pick up the DOTF when it hits Trades. My days of picking up comics month after month are over with the NEW 52.
    I could put a faceplam but I'll resist. I'll just say this: why do you hate yourself? If you want some good recent Batman pick up Snyder's, Layman's and Morrison's (you have to read it in order to understand and you'll probably love it as it makes everything Silver Age canon) run as well as the Penguin miniseries, Batwoman and the first arc of N52 Batman and Robin. Now that's some good stuff. Daniel's was a so bad it's funny and a prime example of grimdark garbage.

  12. #132
    Elder Member Mat001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Francisco View Post
    I think that if they eventually decide to make a 4th movie Wayne would return. Something will happen. Blake gets badly hurt or killed and BW is forced to return and done the mantle once again.
    Nope, they're rebooting. The Batman in those films, will probably be the one from the JLA film.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lexrules
    Well Terry took over because Bruce was old and couldn't do it anymore. If he were still younger and not all beat up he would still have been out there.
    Which is no different from "The Dark Knight Rises", where Bruce needs a brace to be mobile again and had a bad back from his fight with Bane. The only difference is that Bruce fixed Gotham's crime problem, before retiring.

    I'm sorry, but I just can't see Bruce having a happy ending and just giving up being Batman. I know some do but I just feel his story will never end and when it does it will be in a Batman suit dead in crime alley were it all started killed by a thug who got off a lucky shot.

    That is perhaps the only dark thing I accept when it comes to Batman and his journey.
    If crime is no more in Gotham, then his mission is done. That's been the point. That's why he walked away at the end of "The Dark Knight Returns" and let the crime fighting be done by younger people. And in the Nolan films, Bruce never wanted to be Batman forever. He just wanted to bring Gotham back from the darkness brought on by the depression. To finish his father's work.

  13. #133
    It's Lexrules... GET HIM. Lexrules's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquacatlungfish View Post
    Pretty sure you did say that on the Man of Steel 2nd trailer thread as I recall. If I'm wrong then sorry.



    You don't know how much crap I get for loving Batmite Lexrules. YOU DON'T KNOW.



    I could put a faceplam but I'll resist. I'll just say this: why do you hate yourself? If you want some good recent Batman pick up Snyder's, Layman's and Morrison's (you have to read it in order to understand and you'll probably love it as it makes everything Silver Age canon) run as well as the Penguin miniseries, Batwoman and the first arc of N52 Batman and Robin. Now that's some good stuff. Daniel's was a so bad it's funny and a prime example of grimdark garbage.
    I read Batman RIP.. Not my favorite by a long shot but that has to do with Morrison and his writing style. He makes you think way to much and I only look for a good escape from everyday life when I read these characters and don't need to look into his mind to understand what he has to say. Just tell me the story and move on to the next one as quickly as possible. Sure it's great you bring in the silver age ideas but do it simply. I don't think he knows how to write simple straight forward story.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexrules View Post
    I read Batman RIP.. Not my favorite by a long shot but that has to do with Morrison and his writing style. He makes you think way to much and I only look for a good escape from everyday life when I read these characters and don't need to look into his mind to understand what he has to say. Just tell me the story and move on to the next one as quickly as possible. Sure it's great you bring in the silver age ideas but do it simply. I don't think he knows how to write simple straight forward story.
    Did you read Batman and Son and the Black Glove (it's now been collected into one deluxe edition called Batman Vs The Black Glove) because if you didn't then you stood no chance liking RIP. It's part of Morrison's epic run that takes every single version of Batman and puts them into one perfect vision that takes most of it from Dennis O'Neil and the science fiction, Silver Age stories and finds great ways to modernize them into Post Crisis Batman whilst still keeping true to their original vision and I can't recommend it enough. Read in order I think only one issue of Morrison's Batman run is actually complicated. Judging from you're taste I say you would love it. RIP just needs prior knowledge which is why people hated it because they jumped on board for a dumb "Death of Batman" storyline and had to read things prior and the death is more psychological then physical. It also read poorly in monthlies.

    Morrison's run also has Batmite, the Club of Heroes, the Batman of Zur-en-Arrgh, Batcow and Alfred the Cat. And don't deny it, you want to read about Batcow.
    Last edited by Aquacatlungfish; 01-08-2013 at 01:09 PM.

  15. #135
    It's Lexrules... GET HIM. Lexrules's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat001 View Post
    If crime is no more in Gotham, then his mission is done. That's been the point. That's why he walked away at the end of "The Dark Knight Returns" and let the crime fighting be done by younger people. And in the Nolan films, Bruce never wanted to be Batman forever. He just wanted to bring Gotham back from the darkness brought on by the depression. To finish his father's work.
    But crime will never be done or defeated.

    Like I said it's a different take but one I just don't seeing Bruce Wayne ever taking.

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