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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrSimonHurt View Post
    The primary problem with all the seamlines is that they don't really lead anywhere. They aren't there to divide the color tones.

    You have new versions of simplistic costumes with DC. The Flash, Superman. Those suits were mostly two-toned classic spandex uniforms that are now cluttered with extra linework. The problem is that with each line you add in black ink, you interrupt the flow of the costume and also the constrasting shadows. The artist will end up not doing dramatic shadow because of all the busy black lines.

    The balance has been struck by Francis in the Flash, though. He eliminates the lines or uses a dark red tone to highlight them. He knows a ton of black lines ruins the costume. David Finch realized that too, which is why his Batman just has the classic suit with a new belt and armored gloves. No seamlines.

    With seams, they are best used to separate color panels, or to just add depth or detail. They're fine when you have a seam down the leg or arm, or two on each side of the chest. They aren't fine when the heroes look like they're wearing Halo Spartan battle armor. Compare Burnham's New 52 Batsuit with Lee's and you can easily see how one works and one makes your eyes tired.

    Armor vs spandex used to separate costumed heroes from their anti-hero vigilante counterparts. Now the vigilantes are just armored to ridiculous extremes(Deathstroke, Hawkman, Midnighter) and the heroes are more complicated looking than they need to be. You used to be able to glance at a comic character and know what they represented. Now it's harder to do.

    Reverting to the old looks isn't really a great idea, but simply tweaking the new ones could be great. I think the single greatest redesign in the New 52 has been the Martian Manhunter. He isn't any busier than he needs to be and his tones and costume lines break up his design perfectly. I can look at him and immediately detect that he's of alien origin who is attempting to place himself in a super hero role on earth. He should have always looked so great. But when I glance at Superman in his armored suit, I see something that looks like a regal lord preparing for conquest. He looks too official. He looks like he's trying to intimidate us. Batman under Lee looks like a man terrified to even consider facing down a gun or a knife with the amount of silly armor he's wearing, and Batman isn't terrified of anything. Lee's Batman reads like someone who isn't confident in his abilities. He wears his Batman on the outside, which is a problem.
    Great post, really enjoyed your well thought out and knowledgeable dissection of the new outfits.
    I seriously miss Captain Mar-Vell.

  2. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrSimonHurt View Post
    The primary problem with all the seamlines is that they don't really lead anywhere. They aren't there to divide the color tones.

    You have new versions of simplistic costumes with DC. The Flash, Superman. Those suits were mostly two-toned classic spandex uniforms that are now cluttered with extra linework. The problem is that with each line you add in black ink, you interrupt the flow of the costume and also the constrasting shadows. The artist will end up not doing dramatic shadow because of all the busy black lines.

    The balance has been struck by Francis in the Flash, though. He eliminates the lines or uses a dark red tone to highlight them. He knows a ton of black lines ruins the costume. David Finch realized that too, which is why his Batman just has the classic suit with a new belt and armored gloves. No seamlines.

    With seams, they are best used to separate color panels, or to just add depth or detail. They're fine when you have a seam down the leg or arm, or two on each side of the chest. They aren't fine when the heroes look like they're wearing Halo Spartan battle armor. Compare Burnham's New 52 Batsuit with Lee's and you can easily see how one works and one makes your eyes tired.

    Armor vs spandex used to separate costumed heroes from their anti-hero vigilante counterparts. Now the vigilantes are just armored to ridiculous extremes(Deathstroke, Hawkman, Midnighter) and the heroes are more complicated looking than they need to be. You used to be able to glance at a comic character and know what they represented. Now it's harder to do.

    Reverting to the old looks isn't really a great idea, but simply tweaking the new ones could be great. I think the single greatest redesign in the New 52 has been the Martian Manhunter. He isn't any busier than he needs to be and his tones and costume lines break up his design perfectly. I can look at him and immediately detect that he's of alien origin who is attempting to place himself in a super hero role on earth. He should have always looked so great. But when I glance at Superman in his armored suit, I see something that looks like a regal lord preparing for conquest. He looks too official. He looks like he's trying to intimidate us. Batman under Lee looks like a man terrified to even consider facing down a gun or a knife with the amount of silly armor he's wearing, and Batman isn't terrified of anything. Lee's Batman reads like someone who isn't confident in his abilities. He wears his Batman on the outside, which is a problem.
    Great post and great analysis.
    --Mike McNulty, aka Stillanerd

    Blog: Yes, I Am STILL a Nerd!

    Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason why it was put up.--G.K. Chesterton

  3. #78

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    Thought of something I wish they would change, something that clashes to ridiculous levels, white gloves on Green Lantern, they never made any sense and continue to be out of place, green gloves would make sense, really need to fix that mistake.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xiroteus View Post
    Thought of something I wish they would change, something that clashes to ridiculous levels, white gloves on Green Lantern, they never made any sense and continue to be out of place, green gloves would make sense, really need to fix that mistake.
    His gloves are white because his ring is green. Otherwise, the ring blends into the gloves and it looks more like his fist is glowing. Being the Green Lantern, you want that ring to stand out. They knew this in the golden age, which is why Alan Scott had no gloves. Same as Kyle Rayner, who had wrist armor but his hands were visible. Same for John Stewart.

    Plus, the white looks optimistic. Just green and black makes the character appear thematically dark. The white gloves and chest logo indicate light, which is necessary for a character who swears by it. As a colorist, I can say that you want this sort of contrast. You want to make him brighter than other characters. I argue that he has too much black on his costume, but it's a great contrast. The black does at least give him an 'official' look, like a figure of authority should. The new Alan Scott looks like a super powered pacifier, for example. He needs color contrast. Green is not a threatening color and is psychologically calming. It should inspire hope but not to a degree that it would roll over for the bad guys.
    Last edited by DrSimonHurt; 01-08-2013 at 09:02 PM.

  5. #80
    Senior Member Hatut Zeraze's Avatar
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    Wonder Woman looked better with pants. I know I am about the 15th person to say that in this thread, but it really needs to be repeated another 100 more times.

    I like Tim Drake's costume, but the costumes worn by the rest of the Teen Titans constitute visual assault. I feel a migraine coming on simply from remembering the way they look.

    Superman looks OK without the trunks. The armor is nearly tolerable.

    I don't really enjoy Swamp Thing's antlers. Those can go.

    Animal Man's new 52 color scheme is pretty horrible. I choose to believe that the writers are doing that on purpose, promoting Buddy Baker's hideous taste in clothing as a character trait. He's even more of an underdog because he can't see how stupid he looks.

    Aquaman looks cool.

    Flash is alright.

    I don't really dig Green Arrow looking younger than Roy Harper.

    Martian Manhunter's new look is amongst the very best of the changes. He looks awesome.

    I liked Philip Tan's initial sketches of Hawkman, but when I think of that look now, all I can think of are those early stories. I cringe.

  6. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrSimonHurt View Post
    His gloves are white because his ring is green. Otherwise, the ring blends into the gloves and it looks more like his fist is glowing. Being the Green Lantern, you want that ring to stand out. They knew this in the golden age, which is why Alan Scott had no gloves. Same as Kyle Rayner, who had wrist armor but his hands were visible. Same for John Stewart.

    Plus, the white looks optimistic. Just green and black makes the character appear thematically dark. The white gloves and chest logo indicate light, which is necessary for a character who swears by it. As a colorist, I can say that you want this sort of contrast. You want to make him brighter than other characters. I argue that he has too much black on his costume, but it's a great contrast. The black does at least give him an 'official' look, like a figure of authority should. The new Alan Scott looks like a super powered pacifier, for example. He needs color contrast. Green is not a threatening color and is psychologically calming. It should inspire hope but not to a degree that it would roll over for the bad guys.
    Oddly I never thought of the ring itself, I like the costume from the animated first flight movie, NO white and it looks nice and balanced, basically any design that would allow for green and black only, and lets say one has to go with white there is no balance when it is just the gloves, looks out of place. I dislike it to such a degree I would gladly be happy with anyone altering the comic pages so it looks better. I can be picky when things clash really bad.

    Wonder Woman looked better with pants. I know I am about the 15th person to say that in this thread, but it really needs to be repeated another 100 more times.
    I also agree, nothing wrong with pants, it would make sense.
    Last edited by Xiroteus; 01-08-2013 at 11:42 PM.

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