Newsarama: Superman Gets Through H'el With Some Justice League Help

[Auguste Dupin]

I'm not suggesting that at all. What I'm saying, however, is that the show and the Donner film plot it drew upon for this particular theme has merit: it is not Superman's role to interfere in history.



For heaven's sake, I'm not saying it wouldn't be hard emotionally. But it shouldn't be an actual conflict that needs to be weighed or considered. The answer should be obvious: save Earth or save both. There should be no conflict whatsoever in Superman's mind that saving Earth takes precedent. Now that decision would certainly be heart-wrenching, but it shouldn't be challenging in any other way.



Well, here's hoping Lobdell doesn't ignore these little details so questions like this don't arise in the future.

-But nothing we saw so far indicates that he will. In fact, it seems that he has taken the not changing history side.
(Not to mention that, in the Donner movie, Superman does change history by going back in time to save Lois.)

- But that's what an emotionnal conflict is: something you know you must do, but that is hard to do emotionnally. I mean, gee, where did you ever get the idea he would be tempted to accept H'El's plan? Did you see him accept H'el's plan? Did you even see him consider accepting? Because what I saw was Superman telling him to go to hell with his "we can save Krypton together" thing. But that doesn't mean it's easy. It's pretty much the kind of emotionnal stuggle most people hope to never encounter in their life.

-Considering that I doubt H'El's plan will ever come to pass, I don't think he really to right now.

[misslane38]

-But nothing we saw so far indicates that he will. In fact, it seems that he has taken the not changing history side.
(Not to mention that, in the Donner movie, Superman does change history by going back in time to save Lois.)

I'm not talking about what we have seen. I'm talking about what Lobdell has said. He said Superman would have to "weigh" this matter. It's the idea that he would even have to weigh it that doesn't sit quite right with me. I know he won't actually make the choice to harm Earth, though, and the point I was making about Superman I was that the decision to alter fate was not treated as entirely a good thing. Jor-El warned him not to do it, and on Smallville attempts to mess with destiny carried with it disastrous consequences. It thus seems fair to say that the very notion of tampering with fate is incredibly problematic.

- But that's what an emotionnal conflict is: something you know you must do, but that is hard to do emotionnally. I mean, gee, where did you ever get the idea he would be tempted to accept H'El's plan? Did you see him accept H'el's plan? Did you even see him consider accepting? Because what I saw was Superman telling him to go to hell with his "we can save Krypton together" thing. But that doesn't mean it's easy. It's pretty much the kind of emotionnal stuggle most people hope to never encounter in their life..

I got the idea he would be tempted because Lobdell said Superman would "weigh" his lineage against the survival of Earth. There is no need to weigh anything with a mental pro/con list when the decision is clear. That said, I can see how the fact that he couldn't accomplish both objectives--save both planets--might weigh on him, as if re-experiencing the loss of his home world all over again, but the decision itself shouldn't require a great deal of thought.

[Darkspellmaster]

They're trying to fix Krypton right? In this reality, and I'll have to double check on this, but was Krypton destroyed by the sun naturally exploding or was there some other reason for it. If it's the case of the former then I hope that H'el is willing to go back in time to the point of before the sun turned into a red giant, which pretty much ment that the world was going to be destroyed any way. You can't stop that natural disaster from happening, and I know it's sciene fiction but kind of impossible to alter the structure of a sun. If it's the case of someone screwing with it, sure they could change that fact, but if they did, what then? You have a new krypton, and Clark and Kara would then be stuck in a altered timeline. Clark may get to meet his family but he couldn't tell them who he was. Regardless it would be lose/lose for Clark.

If we go with choice A (sun naturally going boom) then he has to go back way before his parents are born to find a way to alter the sun or move the people to a knew place. Which means that he never gets to meet his parents and may alterntively change the fact that he's born. If you go with choice B (sun being changed by someone) then the issue becomes not telling your family who you really are and altering your possible birth.

I get the idea behind this story but I don't think it's being excuted quite as well as it could be.

Also in regards to the tropes, yes they have been around for a long time, but that doesn't mean I want Clark to be a duplicate of Peter. My whole point being I just feel that, at times, the writers are writing the charcters from a Marvel perspective rather then a DC perspective, which is two very different schools of writing.

[Auguste Dupin]

They're trying to fix Krypton right? In this reality, and I'll have to double check on this, but was Krypton destroyed by the sun naturally exploding or was there some other reason for it. If it's the case of the former then I hope that H'el is willing to go back in time to the point of before the sun turned into a red giant, which pretty much ment that the world was going to be destroyed any way. You can't stop that natural disaster from happening, and I know it's sciene fiction but kind of impossible to alter the structure of a sun. If it's the case of someone screwing with it, sure they could change that fact, but if they did, what then? You have a new krypton, and Clark and Kara would then be stuck in a altered timeline. Clark may get to meet his family but he couldn't tell them who he was. Regardless it would be lose/lose for Clark.

If we go with choice A (sun naturally going boom) then he has to go back way before his parents are born to find a way to alter the sun or move the people to a knew place. Which means that he never gets to meet his parents and may alterntively change the fact that he's born. If you go with choice B (sun being changed by someone) then the issue becomes not telling your family who you really are and altering your possible birth.

I get the idea behind this story but I don't think it's being excuted quite as well as it could be.

Also in regards to the tropes, yes they have been around for a long time, but that doesn't mean I want Clark to be a duplicate of Peter. My whole point being I just feel that, at times, the writers are writing the charcters from a Marvel perspective rather then a DC perspective, which is two very different schools of writing.

Honestly, no. There hasn't been any real differences in style between DC and Marvel since.....I dunno, the 80's?
As for Clark being a duplicate of Peter......When half the tropes were applied before the existence of Spider-Man, who is the duplicate of who in the matter? When Stan Lee decides his hero is an introverted glasses wearing person working in a newspaper, who do you think he's being inspired by?
It's like when in the first issues of Action, people complained that Clark looked like Peter because he was young and had glasses. That's dumb, and even more so if you realize that Superboy (or young Clark Kent) is a older creation than Spider-Man.

[Superlad93]

I'm not talking about what we have seen. I'm talking about what Lobdell has said. He said Superman would have to "weigh" this matter. It's the idea that he would even have to weigh it that doesn't sit quite right with me. I know he won't actually make the choice to harm Earth, though, and the point I was making about Superman I was that the decision to alter fate was not treated as entirely a good thing. Jor-El warned him not to do it, and on Smallville attempts to mess with destiny carried with it disastrous consequences. It thus seems fair to say that the very notion of tampering with fate is incredibly problematic.



I got the idea he would be tempted because Lobdell said Superman would "weigh" his lineage against the survival of Earth. There is no need to weigh anything with a mental pro/con list when the decision is clear. That said, I can see how the fact that he couldn't accomplish both objectives--save both planets--might weigh on him, as if re-experiencing the loss of his home world all over again, but the decision itself shouldn't require a great deal of thought.

.....so you're upset with the word choice in an interview.....and not what's actually happening on the page? Maybe he just misspoke.....I thought it was just fine and I feel like I got what he was trying to say...

[Superlad93]

They're trying to fix Krypton right? In this reality, and I'll have to double check on this, but was Krypton destroyed by the sun naturally exploding or was there some other reason for it. If it's the case of the former then I hope that H'el is willing to go back in time to the point of before the sun turned into a red giant, which pretty much ment that the world was going to be destroyed any way. You can't stop that natural disaster from happening, and I know it's sciene fiction but kind of impossible to alter the structure of a sun. If it's the case of someone screwing with it, sure they could change that fact, but if they did, what then? You have a new krypton, and Clark and Kara would then be stuck in a altered timeline. Clark may get to meet his family but he couldn't tell them who he was. Regardless it would be lose/lose for Clark.

If we go with choice A (sun naturally going boom) then he has to go back way before his parents are born to find a way to alter the sun or move the people to a knew place. Which means that he never gets to meet his parents and may alterntively change the fact that he's born. If you go with choice B (sun being changed by someone) then the issue becomes not telling your family who you really are and altering your possible birth.

I get the idea behind this story but I don't think it's being excuted quite as well as it could be.

Also in regards to the tropes, yes they have been around for a long time, but that doesn't mean I want Clark to be a duplicate of Peter. My whole point being I just feel that, at times, the writers are writing the charcters from a Marvel perspective rather then a DC perspective, which is two very different schools of writing.

The sun didn't blow it was the core of the planet. Krypton's death could have likely be change if any of the people would have just listened to Jor-el. The kryptonians had the technology to actually change and controle the weather and shift the gravity around in their man built cities.....I'm sure if a whole planet of smart people like this lead by the smartest of them all (Jor-el) put their head together the could have saved it.

For goodness sake Jor-el (and his son) fought off and hurt an little god from the 5th D.

[Auguste Dupin]

The sun didn't blow it was the core of the planet. Krypton's death could have likely be change if any of the people would have just listened to Jor-el. The kryptonians had the technology to actually change and controle the weather and shift the gravity around in their man built cities.....I'm sure if a whole planet of smart people like this lead by the smartest of them all (Jor-el) put their head together the could have saved it.

For goodness sake Jor-el (and his son) fought off and hurt an little god from the 5th D.

Well, if issue 0 is to be believed, when Jor El discovers what's going on, it's already too late to change it. Of course, that only means H'El and Kara would have to go further back in time to warn him when he could do something about it.

[misslane38]

.....so you're upset with the word choice in an interview.....and not what's actually happening on the page? Maybe he just misspoke.....I thought it was just fine and I feel like I got what he was trying to say...

I'm not significantly upset, but word choice can be a bad sign for what will be on the page. If the rest of the arc doesn't have the same issues I won't be bothered at all.

[Superlad93]

Well, if issue 0 is to be believed, when Jor El discovers what's going on, it's already too late to change it. Of course, that only means H'El and Kara would have to go further back in time to warn him when he could do something about it.

True.....BUT didn't Jor-el always say "there always away" lol. But yeah all they'd need to do is go back a bit more