Kraven the Hunter vs. Garfield Logan

[Shellhead]

1. Standard Khazan format. This is the pre-DCnU Garfield Logan, not the DCnU or cartoon versions. Kraven is back to life in his prime Spidey-fighting form, with standard equipment.

2. Same as above, but with one day of prep for both.

[Jerry W. Loper]

IIRC, Garfield Logan is Changeling/Beast Boy, right? If so, he takes this. Both versions. He was underrated because of his personality, but IMO he was a more powerful animal morpher than Vixen or Silverclaw. He wasn't limited to just earth animals, he could become aliens and increase size (I saw him change into a crab the size of a Greyhound bus in one issue).

[Beadle]

Vixen's not really a morpher, per se, is she? And Gar more powerful than the woman who copied the powers of Superman and Jay Garrick among others? Perhaps that might be an exaggeration.

But I agree he has too much for Kraven. Gar just becomes some alien creature with bullet-proof skin etc, and waits it out.

[da noble savage]

Dude can turn into dragons and other mythology beasts kravens got no answer to that he gets roasted real quick.

[Stigma Rex]

What feats does comic Beast Boy have for Alien life? I know he's done it on occasion, but what aliens can he turn into, and how powerful are they? I thought only Titans Tommorow Beast Boy as Animal Man IIRC could do mythic animals as well.

Technically if he can turn into animals there is nothing stopping him from turning into Superman (or at least Krypto), but I know he hasn't done anything like that, and typically only turns into Earth animals.

[Shellhead]

Kraven has detailed knowledge of pressure points for all kinds of animals, and was obsessed with hunting them with his bare hands. He was also a skilled poisoner and herbalist, and used herbs to boost his own strength, speed and toughness. He also rigged his costume to fire short-range magnetic blasts (out of the lion eyes) that caused Spider-man to temporarily lose his superhuman strength and speed. If Gar is generally only capable of turning into normal Earth animals, Kraven has the skills and gear to take him down. I only know of two occasions when Gar took unusual forms: during a lengthy crossover with the Omega Men, he turned into a Gordanian, but didn't display any unusual abilties. And when fighting Madame Rouge to avenge the Doom Patrol, Gar turned into a dragon-like creature, but didn't display any unusual abilities, relying on simply on size and strength. So it seems possible that he can take on the appearance of unearthly creatures but not their special abilities or powers.

[JeffreyWKramer]

From the Titans comics I remember, I don't recall Gar being a very skilled fighter, more someone who gets by just on the power his abilities grant him, as opposed to any real skill in using them. He doesn't seem to have an incredible reaction time or anything like that, and I don't believe he has the ability to turn into anything that is even close to being invulnerable.

Kraven, on the other hand, has legit and repeated feats of tagging Spider-Man, T'Challa, Tigra and the like. He is an expert hand-to-hand fighter (both unarmed and with a variety of weapons, when he chooses to use them) with superior speed and reaction time, and who regularly beats up actual animals - who are presumably pretty skilled in using their various physical assets and abilities in day-to-day survival - pretty easily, including feats like taking down elephants, tigers and gorillas with his bare hands. He has ridiculous damage soak for someone who is supposed to be, essentially, human. And he's also very skilled with making and using various sorts of poisons, potions and such.

With prep, Kraven is probably going to come with poisoned darts or arrows. That alone, with his speed and skill, might be enough to take down Gar in the prep fight. Without prep, he's going to have some trouble dealing with some of the larger things Gar has become, such as dinosaurs, but as I recall those forms were a huge strain for him to maintain, so Kraven can probably outlast him if nothing else. Gar can avoid him for a long time by taking a flying form, but he's not exactly going to beat Kraven by turning into an eagle and crapping on him from the sky.

I see Kraven taking this pretty handily.

[da noble savage]

Im sorry how is kravens takeing down a fire breathing dragon.

[Guy Smiley]

Does Gar have a lower limit as to what kind of animal he can turn into? Could he become a dust mite or a gnat or an amoeba? Good luck dealing with a guy who can get inside your ear canal undetected and then turn into a brown recluse spider or a botfly larva...

[JeffreyWKramer]

Im sorry how is kravens takeing down a fire breathing dragon.

When has the comics version of the character ever displayed that ability? Maybe that's a newer development, but I don't recall Gar ever being able to do stuff like that. He'd usually turn into a rhino or an elephant or something as his fighting form, and I don't recall him ever exhibiting anything like firebreathing or other mythical animal abilities.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Does Gar have a lower limit as to what kind of animal he can turn into? Could he become a dust mite or a gnat or an amoeba? Good luck dealing with a guy who can get inside your ear canal undetected and then turn into a brown recluse spider or a botfly larva...

He's turned into an insect before, but I don't recall him ever becoming anything microscopic.

[Shellhead]

He's turned into an insect before, but I don't recall him ever becoming anything microscopic.

One time when Gar turned into a flying insect, a highly-skilled knife thrower shredded one of his wings. With his herb-enhanced senses and reflexes, Kraven could potentially do something comparable.

[da noble savage]

He's turned into an insect before, but I don't recall him ever becoming anything microscopic.

Crap wrong quote. But you know what I meant.



Boom



and boom any other questions or are we done here.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Thanks for the scans. He's definitely gotten some serious upgrades since last time I followed the character.

That version, yeah, Kraven's probably screwed.