How strong is Wonder Woman now?

[brettc1]

It's all good to me. I prefer a Superman who can be as strong as he needs to be. If that means pushing planets, bring that shit on.

Lodbells physics are all over the shop. I see Superman gets knocked from Metropolis to Ireland. That's about 3000 mile. You get knocked there in ten seconds and you are travelling at about a million miles her hour.

Which means you dont land in Ireland because you are travelling at twenty times escape velocity. The gravitational pull of the planet he can apparently bench was just rendered irrelevant and he wakes up in the vaccum of space.

Lifting a supercarrier is incredible but in terms of comic fantasy somewhere near beleivable. This? Fan-wank.

Diana's feat helping Clark in Justice League sounds about right as their non-wank limit.

[Lafanboy]

How about sun-dipped Superman v.s God-Mode Wonder Woman?

I thought Earth's lighter gravity (vs Krypton's) gave Supes strength and the sun made him invulnerable?

[Rob_Olivera]

Lodbells physics are all over the shop. I see Superman gets knocked from Metropolis to Ireland. That's about 3000 mile. You get knocked there in ten seconds and you are travelling at about a million miles her hour.

Which means you dont land in Ireland because you are travelling at twenty times escape velocity. The gravitational pull of the planet he can apparently bench was just rendered irrelevant and he wakes up in the vaccum of space.

Lifting a supercarrier is incredible but in terms of comic fantasy somewhere near beleivable. This? Fan-wank.

Diana's feat helping Clark in Justice League sounds about right as their non-wank limit.

Yeah, and I love when people's skulls get shoved onto a wall, and the wall breaks too!

[brettc1]

Yeah, and I love when people's skulls get shoved onto a wall, and the wall breaks too!

Clearly physics and dry wall aren't what they used to be.

[Outside_85]

Azzarello's Wonder Woman shows nowhere near that level of strength. She has to use 'god-mode' to out class Artemis [the goddess]. Presumably that means if she now took the cuffs off in Justice League she would be stronger than Superman.

Unless you add in that Artemis is a goddess and could very likely push over a mountain if it suited her.

[wagthedog]

It's all good to me. I prefer a Superman who can be as strong as he needs to be. If that means pushing planets, bring that shit on.

Uggghh!!

This is one of the reasons I dropped Superman. Just the fact or mention of planet pushing is extremely dumb. That, and the kryptonian arc before the nuDC (the 100,000 kryptonians arc--just what makes the last son of krypton so special when there are a 100,000 more of him)?

[Superman Priime]

Uggghh!!

This is one of the reasons I dropped Superman. Just the fact or mention of planet pushing is extremely dumb. That, and the kryptonian arc before the nuDC (the 100,000 kryptonians arc--just what makes the last son of krypton so special when there are a 100,000 more of him)?

Well, we're back down to three Kryptonians now (three and a half if you include Superboy). Unless Kandor is included to.

Anyways, like I said, I like a Superman who is a strong as he needs to be. One thing I hated about Post-Crisis/Pre-DCnU Superman was the limits DC placed on him, at the same time taking limits away from characters like Green Lantern (no more weakness to yellow, at least for top Lanterns), J'onn J'onnz (no more fire weakness from Joe Kelly's run on JLA) or increasing the power levels of other characters (Post-Crisis Wonder Woman was waaaaay more powerful than Pre-Crisis Wonder Woman).

[wagthedog]

Well, we're back down to three Kryptonians now (three and a half if you include Superboy). Unless Kandor is included to.

Anyways, like I said, I like a Superman who is a strong as he needs to be. One thing I hated about Post-Crisis/Pre-DCnU Superman was the limits DC placed on him, at the same time taking limits away from characters like Green Lantern (no more weakness to yellow, at least for top Lanterns), J'onn J'onnz (no more fire weakness from Joe Kelly's run on JLA) or increasing the power levels of other characters (Post-Crisis Wonder Woman was waaaaay more powerful than Pre-Crisis Wonder Woman).

Having Superman as strong as he needs to be is the same plot contrivance that Wonder Woman has with her cuffs off. When the writer backs himself into a corner with his writing, he just makes Superman that much stronger to win, or in Wonder Womans case she can take off the cuffs, or now make swords come out--maybe magic ponies or unicorns later on when the situation requires it.

Even though this new DC has only 3 kryptonians (as of now), I don't let grudges go so easily. Have stayed off his title since, but I do get Justice League.

[Bruce-wayne]

That is a little excessive, I think you might be better satisfied in making your favourite character Galactus or Silver Surfer. Superman is a superhero, and being as strong as he needs to be? Pushing planets? Why, cause supernovas weren't available? The only threat to him now with Lobdell is to bring in a villain in a new arc and say that he is stronger than Superman. By the end of the arc they reveal, oh no, what if Superman IS more powerful than him? GASP. He just has to beat a villain more powerful by becoming automatically more powerful, as Lex implied in #15. Hey Superman, what if you're just not BEING as strong as you are, eh? Eh? Wowww, let's all pause and ponder at this amazing thought. So deep.

So in order to create a story for him, just keep increasing his strength. At the beginning, he is uber strong. Villain is stronger. Superman becomes stronger or stops holding back, so now he can push TWO planets. Don't you think your appetite is a little too large? As strong as he needs to be, really? So what are you meaning to say? That he should be a living breathing walking talking PIS machine? Able to do or lift or move or beat anything, really. You're not even a real superhero anymore then. Better off chatting with the Living Tribunal while sharing tea with the Beyonder. How about we just stop joking around with ourselves and take back H'El to jail, stop disturbing the other Justice Leaguers and just go into space to find a new "stronger than Superman (only till the final issue)" villain on Pluto.
[/sarcasm]

But that really is characteristic of Lobdell's work, if he were to write Wonder Woman in her own book, the book would probably open with her lifting a mountain or 2 and punching missiles while chatting with Lennox about Apollo's interests. Cause that's the obvious way to make her seem cool. I'm sorry, that is just not in the spirit of genuine superheroics. Just PIS, really. I'm not even in awe of the feats anymore, even in a fictional universe, that is just too much. That may just be your choice, I guess, no limits whatsoever. A Superman who never loses, always wins a fight, no need to ever debate with fans/fanboys of other superheroes, no need for feats or anything. Why is he in the Justice League? I'm sorry, I respect your taste but I've never seen anyone want that much out of Superman/a superhero. Mostly such fans just make Dr. Manhattan or someone their favourite character. Not my cup of tea. My mild irritation is not aimed even slightly at any user, just at the whole concept itself of exaggeration and PIS, writers' favouritism and general fan-wank.

[brettc1]

Unless you add in that Artemis is a goddess and could very likely push over a mountain if it suited her.

Can Artemis lift the planet? Because quite frainly I would call that lame. I mean sure you might say "Hey, she's the goddess of the moon, and should be pretty strong." But if that were the case then as god of the sun Apollo should have vaporized Lennox by winking at him.

Even by DC standards that is just absurdly powerful. I can remember issues where it took a dozen of the stongest characters to push the Moon, and that included some Krytonians. Another where Supes, Diana and Jonn tow the Earth. I accepted that particular one because Diana used magic to encompass the planet in the lasso, and magic trumps physics every time. But this Superman could use the Earth for a bowling ball. Nobody is strong enough to fight that. Anyone not from Krypton he should be able to beat them by spitting at them.

And honestly if they are going to write Superman that strong what does Diana bring to this relationship in terms of super-powers. Compared to that she is only fractionally stronger than Lois.

[Outside_85]

Can Artemis lift the planet? Because quite frainly I would call that lame. I mean sure you might say "Hey, she's the goddess of the moon, and should be pretty strong." But if that were the case then as god of the sun Apollo should have vaporized Lennox by winking at him.

I was mostly referring to the 'have to have taken her cuffs off to catch the carrier' note.
That said, Artemis and Apollo might be as powerful as you say, but they haven't had any reason to actually go that far with their powers during their abduction of Zola. Like Superman told Darkseid in the JLU final episode; he's taking constant care that he doesn't hit anyone or anything too hard and that he felt he was living in a world made of cardboard. But then there was Darkseid who could take it, and was swiftly punched across town.
Also in the JL cartoon we had the Paradise Lost episode where they squared off against Hades, he had nothing but his status as a god to make him a threat...and he pretty much walks over them:

[hellacre]

Nothing wrong in being as powerful as one needs to be. That's comics. If Batman can do anything then Superman can bench press the earth and WW can go God mode. Chances are Lobdell will use his ideas consistently in his book and in his book Superman is only discovering he can actually do that by pushing himself in that high tech lab/gym of Dr Veritas. He had no idea he could before. Thing is Diana went God Mode once and that was it clear she knew she had the power. Has she never queried that power btw ?

I would like to see Diana use the powers she has in a concrete/consistent way though. Instead we seeing some of them appear at the whim of Gods and then she does not use them after begs to wonder if they are only due to temporary tinkering. The crackling lasso, flight, God mode comes to mind. All used in ways before to get her out of situations.

Now she is facing off with Orion, are they going to be used? Will she use her power of flight? Will she take off the cuffs? Why not use the lasso and find out who he is and what he wants?

[hellacre]

Can Artemis lift the planet? Because quite frainly I would call that lame. I mean sure you might say "Hey, she's the goddess of the moon, and should be pretty strong." But if that were the case then as god of the sun Apollo should have vaporized Lennox by winking at him.

Even by DC standards that is just absurdly powerful. I can remember issues where it took a dozen of the stongest characters to push the Moon, and that included some Krytonians. Another where Supes, Diana and Jonn tow the Earth. I accepted that particular one because Diana used magic to encompass the planet in the lasso, and magic trumps physics every time. But this Superman could use the Earth for a bowling ball. Nobody is strong enough to fight that. Anyone not from Krypton he should be able to beat them by spitting at them.

And honestly if they are going to write Superman that strong what does Diana bring to this relationship in terms of super-powers. Compared to that she is only fractionally stronger than Lois.

Magic gives him trouble still. Diana's powers are God based aren't they?

[marshal99]

[wagthedog]

Nothing wrong in being as powerful as one needs to be. That's comics. If Batman can do anything then Superman can bench press the earth and WW can go God mode. Chances are Lobdell will use his ideas consistently in his book and in his book Superman is only discovering he can actually do that by pushing himself in that high tech lab/gym of Dr Veritas. He had no idea he could before. Thing is Diana went God Mode once and that was it clear she knew she had the power. Has she never queried that power btw ?

I would like to see Diana use the powers she has in a concrete/consistent way though. Instead we seeing some of them appear at the whim of Gods and then she does not use them after begs to wonder if they are only due to temporary tinkering. The crackling lasso, flight, God mode comes to mind. All used in ways before to get her out of situations.

Now she is facing off with Orion, are they going to be used? Will she use her power of flight? Will she take off the cuffs? Why not use the lasso and find out who he is and what he wants?

I agree with what you are saying here. Apparently Diana does fly in other comics, at least we have now seen her as a streak of light in Justice League versus the hovering aspect that we have seen in her book.

I would love that she uses her powers consistently. But I am afraid that Azz is going to be doing some of that 'temporary' tinkering as you put it. If she doesn't go into 'god-mode' against foes like Orion, that just makes her plain stupid. The swords out of her cuffs is just stupid (at least to me).

I don't want to see her lose to Orion and then later take off the cuffs and saying something like 'round two' and win. I want to know what the consequences are when she takes off the cuffs for a long period of time. If, in issue one, she was sleeping without the cuffs, how come it was easy enough for her to restrain herself when Zola came in. Doesn't sound to me like too much of a bad side effect.

Please Azz, explain her powers to us a little more than you have, or is VAGUE what you are shooting for!