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  1. #16
    File Clerk of MI13 The Sword Is Drawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klinton View Post
    I'm not sure what else you need besides those two. One offers up teen drama, with a side of action. The other offers up action with a side of drama. WatXM has a few brilliant characters too. I prefer the cast there to Arena.

    What isn't being addressed in those books that you'd want elsewhere?

    It's a fair point.

    I'm sure we could all think of a few teen characters at Marvel we'd LIKE to see. But in all seriousness this is the issue. There is no unique concept to get them on a book of their own. Between Young Avengers, Arena, Wolverine & the X-Men and maybe even arguably All-New X-Men younger characters are getting a pretty decent amount of page time.

    Maybe not the original poster's FAVOURED characters, however.

    Marvel dioes have this problem though. The original 5 X-Men, New Mutants, New Warriors, Generation X, New X-Men: Academy X, Avengers: The Initiative, Avengers Academy, Young Avengers, Runaways... There have been a fair number of teen character books over the years. But with the sliding timescale being what it IS it's often hard to know what to do WITH them once one incarnation ends and another begins.

    Who's older than who? Where do they fit? When a writer promotes one of them to an A-Team does that mean they can ever go back to being a Youngster? It all gets very difficult to decide upon.
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  2. #17
    File Clerk of MI13 The Sword Is Drawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seresecros View Post
    Avengers Arena is a good read, I recommend that

    Me too. It's been a stadout out Marvel NOW book, to me.
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  3. #18
    Elder Member BrotherUnitNo_4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Sword Is Drawn View Post
    It's a fair point.

    I'm sure we could all think of a few teen characters at Marvel we'd LIKE to see. But in all seriousness this is the issue. There is no unique concept to get them on a book of their own. Between Young Avengers, Arena, Wolverine & the X-Men and maybe even arguably All-New X-Men younger characters are getting a pretty decent amount of page time.

    Maybe not the original poster's FAVOURED characters, however.

    Marvel dioes have this problem though. The original 5 X-Men, New Mutants, New Warriors, Generation X, New X-Men: Academy X, Avengers: The Initiative, Avengers Academy, Young Avengers, Runaways... There have been a fair number of teen character books over the years. But with the sliding timescale being what it IS it's often hard to know what to do WITH them once one incarnation ends and another begins.

    Who's older than who? Where do they fit? When a writer promotes one of them to an A-Team does that mean they can ever go back to being a Youngster? It all gets very difficult to decide upon.
    Agree with everything you've said. Until we know just what kind of book YA will be, I can't really get behind yet another teen book. Though if there is one, I'd like it to be New Warriors and not just the classic team. I had an idea that begins with Amadeus Cho.
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  4. #19
    Junior Member darkmorgado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dkrook View Post
    Personally i want to see Generation X brought back with all the originals with a writer that could just have some fun with them, instead of try to kill them all off.
    I agreed with this up until the point you said all the originals. I'd want at least one or two changes to the cast.
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Sword Is Drawn View Post
    Me too. It's been a stadout out Marvel NOW book, to me.
    Bah humbug.

  6. #21
    Veteran Member JaggedFel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Sword Is Drawn View Post
    It's a fair point.

    I'm sure we could all think of a few teen characters at Marvel we'd LIKE to see. But in all seriousness this is the issue. There is no unique concept to get them on a book of their own. Between Young Avengers, Arena, Wolverine & the X-Men and maybe even arguably All-New X-Men younger characters are getting a pretty decent amount of page time.

    Maybe not the original poster's FAVOURED characters, however.

    Marvel dioes have this problem though. The original 5 X-Men, New Mutants, New Warriors, Generation X, New X-Men: Academy X, Avengers: The Initiative, Avengers Academy, Young Avengers, Runaways... There have been a fair number of teen character books over the years. But with the sliding timescale being what it IS it's often hard to know what to do WITH them once one incarnation ends and another begins.

    Who's older than who? Where do they fit? When a writer promotes one of them to an A-Team does that mean they can ever go back to being a Youngster? It all gets very difficult to decide upon.
    Well I can see one concept left at least. A government Squad for a next generation SHEILD Team could work grab some troublemaking teens and toss them on the team u have Quake run it. Quake, Victor Mancha, Power Man, Ultra Girl, Thunderstrike, and Enchantress would be a nice core of available teens in my book.

    Still marvel is not big on teen books but I don't exactly want Arena as the future of teen team books.

    Although yeah obviously sliding time scale screens teen heroes pretty hard. They never get to really evolve.
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  7. #22
    Curiosity Seaker Majin Gojira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Sword Is Drawn View Post
    Me too. It's been a stadout out Marvel NOW book, to me.
    Some people disagree. Loudly.

    Honestly, it could have been good, but a lot of factors from the narrative to the meta hamper its overall worth.

    Part of me wants to do a comparison between the various teen books of Marvel and Giant Monster movies to illustrate both their niche value and their general scale of quality.

    IE: If Young Avengers & Runaways are akin to The Blob, then Avengers Academy is akin to Gorgo, Avengers Arena is akin to Earth vs. the Spider.

    It's not Giant Spider Invasion level bad, but it's still Mystery Science Theater worthy and not too good otherwise.

    Gorgo has its faults, and is MST3K able, but is honestly loved by fans of the genre.

    Young Avengers and Runaways are just good period.

    Marvel doesn't seem to think it can support more than 1 teen book at a time and historically, ignoring X-Men, that's been true.

    We just need a proper X-Men Teen book. Wolveirne & the X-Men is more about the teachers as people have said, but the most recent arc(s) have appeared to shift focus at long last.
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  8. #23
    Curiosity Seaker Majin Gojira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaggedFel View Post
    Well I can see one concept left at least. A government Squad for a next generation SHEILD Team could work grab some troublemaking teens and toss them on the team u have Quake run it.

    Still marvel is not big on teen books but I don't exactly want Arena as the future of teen team books.

    Still yeah plenty Patriot, Thunderstrike, Power Man, White Tiger, Spider-girl, Ultra girl, etc.
    I think Secret Warriors wold be right up your alley then. It doesn't use established teens very much, but it does have the same basic concept you outlined, to a degree at least. I don't consider it a teen book, but more a spy book, but there ya go.

    And honestly, who does want Arena to be the future of teen teams? Like it or no, it's a dead end in the long run. Pun not intended.
    "Curse you, Occam's Razor! You have betrayed me!"

    Reviewing is a lot like paleontology: the evidence is there, but no one seems to agree on it.

  9. #24
    Elder Member Vic Vega's Avatar
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    For any team book (teen or otherwise) to survive in this market it would have to either be part of a established brand (Avengers, Xmen, Fantastic Four) or have at least two Alist characters in it, or both.

    The Runaways have a following but after BKV left, it foundered.

    The closest thing that Marvel has to A-list teens are X23 and original Nova(and he isn't even a teen anymore).

    I would have thought Marvel would have given the Amadeus Cho, X23, Spider Girl, Thunderstrke, Power Man team more burn. At least some of those characters have a following. Almost nobody in Arena does (except for X23).

    Marvel's best chance for a sucessful teen team book would probably be one that focuses on the Xkids at Wolverines school (WatXM is really about the faculty, not the kids).

  10. #25
    Curiosity Seaker Majin Gojira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic Vega View Post
    The Runaways have a following but after BKV left, it foundered.
    Actually, that's not quite the case. Sales wise, Joss had the highests run, and the start of Vol. 3 was as strong as ever (little less than BKV's start), but it dipped dramatically affter a derivative starting arc and by the time it began picking up steam again under Kathryne Immonen, it was too late.

    All teens I think are more writer dependent than any true A-Lister.

    As to A-List Teens, that's the Young Avengers, by like a country mile. Though Sales Wise, New X-Men is possibly tied for them. It's just that the X-Writers don't appear to like them that much. The next most popular ones (Runaways, Academy, etc) are best described as cult favorites.
    "Curse you, Occam's Razor! You have betrayed me!"

    Reviewing is a lot like paleontology: the evidence is there, but no one seems to agree on it.

  11. #26
    Veteran Member JaggedFel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majin Gojira View Post
    I think Secret Warriors wold be right up your alley then. It doesn't use established teens very much, but it does have the same basic concept you outlined, to a degree at least. I don't consider it a teen book, but more a spy book, but there ya go.

    And honestly, who does want Arena to be the future of teen teams? Like it or no, it's a dead end in the long run. Pun not intended.
    I read it.

    I never thought Runaways was built for a really long run. Reminded me more of a Manga like FMA or Death Note keep it nice and finite and it works great but its not something that should be stretched.

    Still if Young Avengers does well marvel might try more.
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  12. #27
    Curiosity Seaker Majin Gojira's Avatar
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    There's been a lot of teen teams/series in the last decade. We've had:

    Sentinel - 2 volumes, 17 Issues
    Runaways - 3 Volumes, 2 Crossover Specials, 68 Issues (69 if you include Mystic Arcana)
    New Mutants vol. 2/New X-Men: Academy X/Young X-Men - 3 Volumes, 2 Mini, 79 Issues
    Young Avengers - 2 Volumes, 3 Minis, a few specials and 2 Crossovers, 42+ Issues
    Arana/Spider Girl - 2 Volumes, 20 issues + Backup Feature.
    Nomad - 1 volume, 1 Mini, 11 issues + Backup Feature
    Young Allies - 1 Volumes, 1 Mini, 10 issues
    Avengers Initiative - 1 Volume, 38 Issues. (35 regular, +3 special)
    Avengers Academy - 1 Volume, 40 Issues (39 Regular +1 special)
    Savage She-Hulk - 3 Minis, 11 issues
    Vengeance - 1 Mini, 6 issues
    Young Inhumans - 1 series, 12 issues
    X-23 - 1 Volume, 2 minis, 33 issues (ingoring guest appearances and team appearances).

    On the lastability end, it ranks:
    1) New X-Men (79/?? Given crossover X-Men wackiness and background appearances during the Yost/Kyle Tenure)
    2) Runaways (68-69/65-66+ in crossovers)
    3) Young Avengers (42+). At minimum, it'll last 12 issues raising it to 54, but it may easily overtake the others given its high sales numbers. Not counting their Crossover Event showings.
    4) Avengers Academy (40/50+ with cameoes, other appearnaces and Arena)
    5) Avengers: The Initiative (38/44 with Youth in Revolt)
    6) X-23 (33/92 with teams)
    7) Spider-Girl (20/30+ with teams and other appearnces)
    8) Sentinel (17/19+ with Academy, not focus in Arena yet so no adding. )
    9) Young Inhumans (12/15+ with Silent War background stuff)
    10) Nomad (11/17+ with Onslaught Unleashed, etc. and then the 12 part backup)

    But of them, only Young Avengers, Initativie and New X-Men regularly broke 30K. Of 10, only 3 regularly broke 30K.

    There's been rarely more than 2 to 3 at a time and after a year, only 2 or 3 usually remained ongoing.
    "Curse you, Occam's Razor! You have betrayed me!"

    Reviewing is a lot like paleontology: the evidence is there, but no one seems to agree on it.

  13. #28
    Veteran Member JaggedFel's Avatar
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    Indeed sustained success is hard.
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  14. #29
    Curiosity Seaker Majin Gojira's Avatar
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    Even for non teen characters it's pretty hard. I mean, look at Ms. Marvel, Moon Night, Nova, Guardians of the Galaxy, Defenders, New Mutants vol. 3, Nextwave . . .
    "Curse you, Occam's Razor! You have betrayed me!"

    Reviewing is a lot like paleontology: the evidence is there, but no one seems to agree on it.

  15. #30
    Junior Member Jarocho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaggedFel View Post
    I read it.

    I never thought Runaways was built for a really long run. Reminded me more of a Manga like FMA or Death Note keep it nice and finite and it works great but its not something that should be stretched.

    Still if Young Avengers does well marvel might try more.
    For me Runaways is more like the BBC show Misfits. Started brilliant and would have continued to be brilliant if the characters were allowed to grow and stay true to the character groundwork that came before. Instead they cling to the original premise, the characters get dumbed down, and the product becomes a shadow of its original self. When Runaways went on "hiatus" I dreamt up a lot of ideas on how to continue the series, and all of them were contingent on Chase actually dying and the team evolving into something new. When they were finally brought back in Avengers Academy they felt like a coverband and I had lost interest in them.

    Teen properties are usually have a short shelf life and artificially maintaining a premise keeps them going even as it destroys the characters the audience grew to love. Comics books have one thing on all other mediums, the characters can age any way you wish. The Runaways can go from normal kids to street urchins to mature heroes over the span of a decade and still not reach 19. In in real life teens are always entering new worlds and changing who they are. Things don't start to get boring until later.

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